Scandinavia and the World
 

Comments #9688206:


Halloween appropriation 12 10, 5:29am

@ThorsomeTarmukas

"The feasts are tied to the agricultural and cattle end of year. Which in turn are tied to annual wage payments. Which in turn are tied to young men and women being able to court a prospective future spouse because they now have either a harvest or money for a dowry.

And the end of vegetation period and the lowering of sun is tied to death and to the deceased relatives in general."

This is just pointless babble.
Your claim was:

"19 independent european countries are listed celebrating St. Martin's Day, which is basically the same as Halloween. All of those have pre-christian roots, and not just indo-european ones either."

And your babble proves nothing of this.

"The whole object-oriented programming approach is based on generalisation.
All of legislation is based on generalisation.
All societal rules are based on generalisation.
And the stems and morphemes and language vocabulary and rules are based on generalisation."

More babble.
Detailed analysis, not lazy f*king generalizations is the basis for all academic work. You couldn't even be bothered to read the link you yourself posted as proof for your babble. That's really f*cking lazy.

"So swedes do not mourn the dead relatives in November?
The swedes do not put on costumes and go from door to door, perform acts and expect to get items in return?
The swedes do not have feasts during November?
That begs the question - which kind of Swedes are you talking about? The old ones or the new ones?"

Most babble of all.
Yes, we mourn the dead in November - but that's a completely different celebration then St. Martin's Day!
No we f*cking don't do any of those things in November - we do however do some of those things at easter, in the spring!
Yes but so f*cking what?! We have any number of cultural celebrations in all the months of the year but that dosen't mean you can just switch them around and force them together to "prove" your own looney ideas!
I'm talking about Swedes, today - which is what we're talking about as you original claim was about that - Europeans today:

"19 independent european countries are listed celebrating St. Martin's Day, which is basically the same as Halloween. All of those have pre-christian roots, and not just indo-european ones either."

And since you've obviously still not read the f*cking Wiki-link YOU posted in your original comment, let me help you understand the difference between facts and your "generalized" fantasy version:

"St. Martin was known as friend of the children and patron of the poor. This holiday originated in France, then spread to the Low Countries, the British Isles, Germany, Scandinavia, and Eastern Europe. It celebrates the end of the agrarian year and the end of the harvest. Bishop Perpetuus of Tours, who died in 490, ordered fasting three days a week from the day after Saint Martin's Day (11 November). In the 6th century, local councils required fasting on all days except Saturdays and Sundays from Saint Martin's Day to Epiphany (the Feast of the Three Wise Men and the star, c.f. Matthew 2: 1-12) on January 6, a period of 56 days, but of 40 days fasting, like the fast of Lent. It was therefore called Quadragesima Sancti Martini (Saint Martin's Lent). This period of fasting was later shortened and called "Advent" by the Church.

The goose became a symbol of St. Martin of Tours because of a legend that when trying to avoid being ordained bishop he had hidden in a goose pen, where he was betrayed by the cackling of the geese. St. Martin's feast day falls in November, when geese are ready for killing. St. Martin’s Day was an important medieval autumn feast, and the custom of eating goose spread to Sweden from France. It was primarily observed by the craftsmen and noblemen of the towns. In the peasant community, not everyone could afford to eat goose, so many ate duck or hen instead."

Nothing about "pre-christian roots" and nothing to do with honoring the dead (which has a completely DIFFERENT holiday).
So while there may be some local version of this celebration in ESTONIA where those things are true - this is not the case in all those 18 other countries you claim they where, just because you lazily "generalized" by thinking:
"Oh, I know something about this celebration in my country - it has to be the same everywhere else if it has the same name! Let's not read up on this - that's real work and hard. I'll just shoot my mouth of and claim I know stuff, because who would ever look it up and prove me an ass?!"

Got it now, dumbass?