"you obviously have zero grasp of the cultures within my country as well as what I'm even talking about. This isn't about just "clothes and food" - this is about what is considered socially acceptable, general social behaviors, laws being changed by a new majority that has moved in and voted our laws be changed leaving us with no say, and our way of life"
Yes - it is hard to know what you're talking about when you refuse to give concrete examples.
You keep repeating all these fears about things changing - but you haven't been able to show how anything has changed. Except for one anecdote about a single person forcing a Texas community to stop celebrating Christmas - which frankly doesn't sound even remotely plausible.
That couldn't even happen here and Sweden is a far more liberal society then Texas.
I'm certain there's got to be more to that story then you're telling.
Laws change all the time - it's called democracy.
What would the alternative be? Deny some citizens their democratic rights?
Deny American citizens the right to live where they want in the their nation?
I mean none of those things are even possible, unless you make serious changes to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Are you actually proposing that?
"which just so you know, culture actually varies greatly across the US depending on which region you're in. This is due to the countries that settled the regions, their resources, economies, religions, etc. We use different dialects in speaking, consider certain things rude one place that is typical in another. I just really don't believe you fully understand the diversity that exists even within our borders. Sure we share some common traits... but our differences still aren't always so small."
Once again - how would you want to change anything here?
Every US citizen has the right to live where they want in the nation and they have the democratic right to vote and effect political change wherever they live.
So short of making drastic changes to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, none of that will ever change.
I mean not allowing people to move within their own nation - that's the kind of thing they did in Soviet Russia and the system they have in North Korea today. Are you actually advocating for that?
"- We don't all eat the same foods by the way. This is extremely ignorant. We also don't have an official language, so you can hardly state that either. I'm required to speak Spanish basically in order to get a job because so much of the population in my area doesn't speak English."
Yes you do - within the same variations as in any other country. It's not like hamburgers or pizza (for example) is a regional dish. There are regional variations yes - but it's not like the US armed forces are forced to have completely different mess halls for radically different food for the troops (something the British during their empire actually where forced to have for their Indian troops as they couldn't eat the British food at all).
A lot of countries doesn't have an designated official language - but that doesn't mean there isn't one that's the overwhelmingly dominant.
Sweden had 4 designated official minority languages before we designated Swedish as the official language "in international situations" as the law states in 2009.
That official designation didn't make any difference of course as Swedish had always been the overwhelmingly dominant language in Sweden.
It was codified just because it was felt it was a bit strange that out law designated minority languages, but not an official one.
Regarding you being expected to speak Spanish in Texas - well you did steal that part of your country from Mexico, so Texas spoke Spanish before it spoke English.
So maybe the Spanish speakers should be annoyed by having to speak English - not the other way around?
""Culture is culture, there is no difference.
You're letting your prejudices cloud your thinking here - there really isn't a difference. "
- You seriously believe this? So you believe that the division of Western and Eastern cultures has to do strictly with geography? Oh boy... this is some post modernist thought process if I've ever seen one..."
No, it's not a question about geography at all. We're talking about cultural influences and my point is that culture is culture - whatever prefix you put in front of it.
Indian culture is Indian, American culture is American - but they're both cultures and one isn't automatically better or more compatible with any other culture - you have to look at each specific cultural import individually.
You and others here suffer from the prejudice that American culture automatically should be more compatible with European - but that's simply not the case.
Europeans happily adopted both hamburgers and kebab as I said - while we're equally opposed to other cultural influences like child marriage or gun culture.
As I've said repeatedly - this is how cultural influences work - it's up to the majority culture to accept the influence - if it doesn't the import of a certain cultural expression won't happen.
Nothing post modern about it - that's just how it works and how it's always worked throughout history.
"- This is a ridiculous argument. I never said I feared other cultures, I said it bothered me to see mine disappearing. And whether you believe it or not, yes, it is. And it's not the "American culture" I'm worried about, it's my local culture. And I don't believe that I'm 25 times more likely to be MURDERED by a gun - perhaps killed by one. There is a major difference (suicide, accidents, etc). The truth of the matter on this is that more people die from guns via suicide in my country than those who are murdered. And as we all know, if a suicidal person doesn't have a gun, they'll find the next most convenient method."
You've repeatedly written about the "fear" felt over the "threat" from other cultures and so no, you've clearly expressed that you're more the "bothered" about this.
And regarding you being worried about your local and not the American culture - we're once again back to what you propose to do about that?
Any American has the right to move wherever they want - that's always been the case. Would you want restrictions put on where people are able to move within the country - like they have in North Korea now?
Sadly, the number I gave you is true - you and ever other American is 25 times more likely to be MURDERED by a gun then any citizen in any other developed nation.
You're 8 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun as an American then citizens in any other developed nation and you're 6 times more likely to lose your life in an accident with guns then citizens in any other developed nation.
This based on a study of the US and 22 other developed countries death rates for the year 2010 in the American Journal of Medicine.
Of all gun related deaths in those 23 countries during that one years, 82% occurred in the US.
Yes - American levels of gun violence is utterly extreme compared to any other developed nation. Looking at those numbers you might understand why the rest of the world really don't get your obsession with guns.
"- Actually, many of these people DO consider themselves these things, just along with being American as well. I never claimed they were a threat to the American culture. But when you have a town of 100,000 and over the years 250,000 people from different parts of the world/country move there, there is a good chance the entire culture of that town has become a massive melting pot rather than maintaining it's original culture."
My question was how many with Italian or Chinese ancestry consider themselves Italian or Chinese more then American and the answer is of course none. Your try to answer "both" is ridiculous - the vast majority of these people don't even speak the language of their ancestors, they're certainly American in every way and only to a very minor degree influenced by their ancestry.
As I've said before they may have cultural traces left in their names or food, but the vast majority of all discernible cultural difference has long since melted away.
You certainly expressed a great deal of fear over cultural changes - but you seem to be less worried about any American cultural change as you seem to not believe the US to have a unified culture at all?
Listening to you one get's the impression that the US is in fact made up of a many widely different cultural groups that are so different from one another that they could just as well form their own country.
And you seem more afraid that these domestic immigrant will descend on your state of Texas and obliterate your own local culture that you seem most interested in protecting.
Which is interesting as I've yet to speak to anyone in Europe who is so fiercely regional that they have a problem with fellow countrymen moving into their neighborhood.
"- And I'd advise you not to believe that 'PolitiFact, FactCheck.Org, Washington Post, Snopes, CNN and NBC News' are unbiased sources. I literally just looked up some information because you repeatedly insisted on seeing sources."
No need to get testy - I only gave you a friendly advice.
Regarding the sources you listed I know for a fact there's no problem with the reputable news media like Washington Post, CNN or NBC. The others I haven't checked though.
And I sent you a source on why the source you linked to shouldn't be trusted - I didn't just base that on my opinion.
"- Like I said, this isn't about just "clothes and food". Yes, laws have changed due to the shift in population. People in California, New England, and even Mexico often have very different stances politically than many Texans do."
As I said before - nothing you can do about that, unless you make major changes to the Constitution and adopt policies from North Korea.
""I mean for all I know this Christmas tradition of yours might have been highly offensive in some way - some old traditions are."
- If having a few Christmas trees around, having Christmas music (not even 'religious' in theme) playing, and simple childish things such as that is "offensive", then idk what to tell you."
That's obviously not what I meant with "highly offensive" and you know it.
Your continued inability to provide any convincing evidence for how a single immigrant was able to force a Texan community to abandon their Christians celebration makes this story unlikely as I've already said.
"You're general attitude to this situation very much shows your personal biases. Also, in response to the commentary you had on our immigration (both domestic and international), I don't need charts and graphs to see my home changing drastically. Becoming over crowded. 1 in 4 people in my city weren't born in my country, and even more weren't born in my state. If people want to come here and truly integrate with our culture, I have no problem with that whatsoever. But that often is not the case, they move here and want to make things like their home that they left. Mock our cultural 'quirks', the way we talk, etc."
You're mixing your arguments. First it's "over crowded" - which implies there are just too many people.
Then you're suddenly fine with people coming - as long as they integrate to your culture.
I have the feeling it's this later question that's your real concern, as that's what you've been talking about mostly.
"Me being upset about this having a huge effect on my surroundings isn't something you have the right to how I should or shouldn't feel about it. And it definitely shouldn't be mixed in with insinuations that if I am upset about it, I'm somehow a racist or something of that nature, because that couldn't be further from the truth. I honestly just believe you don't have the ability to grasp my perspective as you've not been in my shoes."
No, you're of course entitled to your feelings about this and I can't understand them fully as I'm not you.
I've just been trying to understand your perspective and I think I have up to a point.
I've also tried to add the historical perspective that these changes aren't in any way unique to your time and place - they've happened time and time again in the US and all over the world.
That might not make you feel better about the changes you feel are encroaching on your community - but it should at least allay any fears about any more catastrophic scenario.
The US and Texas won't cease to exist or become completely different over night - that's never happened before, even if they've both been through demographical changes like these before.
And change is inevitable. A Texan from the 1800's that came back today would find much has changed. He might not think your Texas is his Texas. Does that mean that the Texas you grew up in and want to protect isn't actually Texas at all, but just a bad copy of the original?
Or is the original even older then that old Texans version of it?
The answer always has to be that every place is evolving over time - and none of us can change that fact or deny it.
We don't own places - we borrow them for a while.
So instead of feeling lousy over something you can't change anyway - isn't it better to enjoy what you have now and try to see the positive that comes with change?
Because there's of curse always positive things that do come with change as well.
0
@GrayFenix
"you obviously have zero grasp of the cultures within my country as well as what I'm even talking about. This isn't about just "clothes and food" - this is about what is considered socially acceptable, general social behaviors, laws being changed by a new majority that has moved in and voted our laws be changed leaving us with no say, and our way of life"
Yes - it is hard to know what you're talking about when you refuse to give concrete examples.
You keep repeating all these fears about things changing - but you haven't been able to show how anything has changed. Except for one anecdote about a single person forcing a Texas community to stop celebrating Christmas - which frankly doesn't sound even remotely plausible.
That couldn't even happen here and Sweden is a far more liberal society then Texas.
I'm certain there's got to be more to that story then you're telling.
Laws change all the time - it's called democracy.
What would the alternative be? Deny some citizens their democratic rights?
Deny American citizens the right to live where they want in the their nation?
I mean none of those things are even possible, unless you make serious changes to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Are you actually proposing that?
"which just so you know, culture actually varies greatly across the US depending on which region you're in. This is due to the countries that settled the regions, their resources, economies, religions, etc. We use different dialects in speaking, consider certain things rude one place that is typical in another. I just really don't believe you fully understand the diversity that exists even within our borders. Sure we share some common traits... but our differences still aren't always so small."
Once again - how would you want to change anything here?
Every US citizen has the right to live where they want in the nation and they have the democratic right to vote and effect political change wherever they live.
So short of making drastic changes to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, none of that will ever change.
I mean not allowing people to move within their own nation - that's the kind of thing they did in Soviet Russia and the system they have in North Korea today. Are you actually advocating for that?
"- We don't all eat the same foods by the way. This is extremely ignorant. We also don't have an official language, so you can hardly state that either. I'm required to speak Spanish basically in order to get a job because so much of the population in my area doesn't speak English."
Yes you do - within the same variations as in any other country. It's not like hamburgers or pizza (for example) is a regional dish. There are regional variations yes - but it's not like the US armed forces are forced to have completely different mess halls for radically different food for the troops (something the British during their empire actually where forced to have for their Indian troops as they couldn't eat the British food at all).
A lot of countries doesn't have an designated official language - but that doesn't mean there isn't one that's the overwhelmingly dominant.
Sweden had 4 designated official minority languages before we designated Swedish as the official language "in international situations" as the law states in 2009.
That official designation didn't make any difference of course as Swedish had always been the overwhelmingly dominant language in Sweden.
It was codified just because it was felt it was a bit strange that out law designated minority languages, but not an official one.
Regarding you being expected to speak Spanish in Texas - well you did steal that part of your country from Mexico, so Texas spoke Spanish before it spoke English.
So maybe the Spanish speakers should be annoyed by having to speak English - not the other way around?
""Culture is culture, there is no difference.
You're letting your prejudices cloud your thinking here - there really isn't a difference. "
- You seriously believe this? So you believe that the division of Western and Eastern cultures has to do strictly with geography? Oh boy... this is some post modernist thought process if I've ever seen one..."
No, it's not a question about geography at all. We're talking about cultural influences and my point is that culture is culture - whatever prefix you put in front of it.
Indian culture is Indian, American culture is American - but they're both cultures and one isn't automatically better or more compatible with any other culture - you have to look at each specific cultural import individually.
You and others here suffer from the prejudice that American culture automatically should be more compatible with European - but that's simply not the case.
Europeans happily adopted both hamburgers and kebab as I said - while we're equally opposed to other cultural influences like child marriage or gun culture.
As I've said repeatedly - this is how cultural influences work - it's up to the majority culture to accept the influence - if it doesn't the import of a certain cultural expression won't happen.
Nothing post modern about it - that's just how it works and how it's always worked throughout history.
"- This is a ridiculous argument. I never said I feared other cultures, I said it bothered me to see mine disappearing. And whether you believe it or not, yes, it is. And it's not the "American culture" I'm worried about, it's my local culture. And I don't believe that I'm 25 times more likely to be MURDERED by a gun - perhaps killed by one. There is a major difference (suicide, accidents, etc). The truth of the matter on this is that more people die from guns via suicide in my country than those who are murdered. And as we all know, if a suicidal person doesn't have a gun, they'll find the next most convenient method."
You've repeatedly written about the "fear" felt over the "threat" from other cultures and so no, you've clearly expressed that you're more the "bothered" about this.
And regarding you being worried about your local and not the American culture - we're once again back to what you propose to do about that?
Any American has the right to move wherever they want - that's always been the case. Would you want restrictions put on where people are able to move within the country - like they have in North Korea now?
Sadly, the number I gave you is true - you and ever other American is 25 times more likely to be MURDERED by a gun then any citizen in any other developed nation.
You're 8 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun as an American then citizens in any other developed nation and you're 6 times more likely to lose your life in an accident with guns then citizens in any other developed nation.
This based on a study of the US and 22 other developed countries death rates for the year 2010 in the American Journal of Medicine.
Of all gun related deaths in those 23 countries during that one years, 82% occurred in the US.
Yes - American levels of gun violence is utterly extreme compared to any other developed nation. Looking at those numbers you might understand why the rest of the world really don't get your obsession with guns.
Source: http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(15)01030-X/fulltext
"- Actually, many of these people DO consider themselves these things, just along with being American as well. I never claimed they were a threat to the American culture. But when you have a town of 100,000 and over the years 250,000 people from different parts of the world/country move there, there is a good chance the entire culture of that town has become a massive melting pot rather than maintaining it's original culture."
My question was how many with Italian or Chinese ancestry consider themselves Italian or Chinese more then American and the answer is of course none. Your try to answer "both" is ridiculous - the vast majority of these people don't even speak the language of their ancestors, they're certainly American in every way and only to a very minor degree influenced by their ancestry.
As I've said before they may have cultural traces left in their names or food, but the vast majority of all discernible cultural difference has long since melted away.
You certainly expressed a great deal of fear over cultural changes - but you seem to be less worried about any American cultural change as you seem to not believe the US to have a unified culture at all?
Listening to you one get's the impression that the US is in fact made up of a many widely different cultural groups that are so different from one another that they could just as well form their own country.
And you seem more afraid that these domestic immigrant will descend on your state of Texas and obliterate your own local culture that you seem most interested in protecting.
Which is interesting as I've yet to speak to anyone in Europe who is so fiercely regional that they have a problem with fellow countrymen moving into their neighborhood.
"- And I'd advise you not to believe that 'PolitiFact, FactCheck.Org, Washington Post, Snopes, CNN and NBC News' are unbiased sources. I literally just looked up some information because you repeatedly insisted on seeing sources."
No need to get testy - I only gave you a friendly advice.
Regarding the sources you listed I know for a fact there's no problem with the reputable news media like Washington Post, CNN or NBC. The others I haven't checked though.
And I sent you a source on why the source you linked to shouldn't be trusted - I didn't just base that on my opinion.
"- Like I said, this isn't about just "clothes and food". Yes, laws have changed due to the shift in population. People in California, New England, and even Mexico often have very different stances politically than many Texans do."
As I said before - nothing you can do about that, unless you make major changes to the Constitution and adopt policies from North Korea.
""I mean for all I know this Christmas tradition of yours might have been highly offensive in some way - some old traditions are."
- If having a few Christmas trees around, having Christmas music (not even 'religious' in theme) playing, and simple childish things such as that is "offensive", then idk what to tell you."
That's obviously not what I meant with "highly offensive" and you know it.
Your continued inability to provide any convincing evidence for how a single immigrant was able to force a Texan community to abandon their Christians celebration makes this story unlikely as I've already said.
"You're general attitude to this situation very much shows your personal biases. Also, in response to the commentary you had on our immigration (both domestic and international), I don't need charts and graphs to see my home changing drastically. Becoming over crowded. 1 in 4 people in my city weren't born in my country, and even more weren't born in my state. If people want to come here and truly integrate with our culture, I have no problem with that whatsoever. But that often is not the case, they move here and want to make things like their home that they left. Mock our cultural 'quirks', the way we talk, etc."
You're mixing your arguments. First it's "over crowded" - which implies there are just too many people.
Then you're suddenly fine with people coming - as long as they integrate to your culture.
I have the feeling it's this later question that's your real concern, as that's what you've been talking about mostly.
"Me being upset about this having a huge effect on my surroundings isn't something you have the right to how I should or shouldn't feel about it. And it definitely shouldn't be mixed in with insinuations that if I am upset about it, I'm somehow a racist or something of that nature, because that couldn't be further from the truth. I honestly just believe you don't have the ability to grasp my perspective as you've not been in my shoes."
No, you're of course entitled to your feelings about this and I can't understand them fully as I'm not you.
I've just been trying to understand your perspective and I think I have up to a point.
I've also tried to add the historical perspective that these changes aren't in any way unique to your time and place - they've happened time and time again in the US and all over the world.
That might not make you feel better about the changes you feel are encroaching on your community - but it should at least allay any fears about any more catastrophic scenario.
The US and Texas won't cease to exist or become completely different over night - that's never happened before, even if they've both been through demographical changes like these before.
And change is inevitable. A Texan from the 1800's that came back today would find much has changed. He might not think your Texas is his Texas. Does that mean that the Texas you grew up in and want to protect isn't actually Texas at all, but just a bad copy of the original?
Or is the original even older then that old Texans version of it?
The answer always has to be that every place is evolving over time - and none of us can change that fact or deny it.
We don't own places - we borrow them for a while.
So instead of feeling lousy over something you can't change anyway - isn't it better to enjoy what you have now and try to see the positive that comes with change?
Because there's of curse always positive things that do come with change as well.