@Nisse_Hult
****"Ok. So that's the norm for all foreign movies screened in Russia then?"
Pretty much. We do have our own movies as well, even have a so called "cinema fund" - which supposed to provide finances for promising new movie makers. Instead it acts as shit-Midas, turning every film it sponsors into an empty flop, filled of nothing but advertising. So main supplier of films in our movie theaters is still Hollywood.
****"from apologists of the old Confederacy"
...which started not because of issue of slavery alone. A fact that chunk of USA population is as happy to erase as Bolsheviks were happy to erase February Revolution and to claim that THEY have forced emperor into abdication.
So yes, I believe I sound very similar to these people - my country already went through age of denial of historical facts and that resulted in... Let me see... Tyranny, government isolated from people, corruption, wars, repressions, terror, landgrabs, and enormous amount of other despeakable acts through history of the Union, as well as left a fertile soil for new wave of propaganda.
****"no serious person ever claimed we could or should do such a thing"
And sometimes these statues are dedicated to memory of sorrowful events, or to memory of people who perished in wars - soldiers included. Tell me, how many memorials to soldiers of Germany that perished in WWII do you know? Were crimes of their commanders and of some of them so dire, that *none* of them deserves being remembered as a human being, and not a stereotypic "bad guy" from movies and video games..? And where *else* do they even appear mentioned, at all? Exactly.
****"At least as long as there are still idiots who see him as a hero."
You plan to wait until the thermal death of the universe itself? There are ALWAYS people with unorthodox views on things. Some people thing the Earth is flat, some thing homeopathy is effective, some are certain eating past 6 PM leads to obesity, some are sure Angelina Jolie's chest is real, and some are pretty sure it is normal for Merkel to go on a 4th term as head of government.
People not always agree in everything. Especially when they get selective with the information.
****"he only brought death and destruction to Germany"
Reduced unemployment, stabilized national currency, gave the start to construction of "Autoban", increased state industry and introduced "marriage loans" for newly created families. That is to name few things he brought to Germany along with racism, genocide, war and destruction.
Like it or not, even monstrous persons sometimes do things right, and it is also important to remember because sometimes people do things right - and you forgive them some amount of corruption, calculating that their accomplishments compensate their crimes.
Stalin brought industrialization to Soviet Union, de facto *created* the said Union in first place, made it endure in WWII and laid foundation to developments achieved after his death.
Napoleon Bonaparte brought sanctity of private property, equality in face of law and social competition based not on heritage, but on merit.
Boudica liberated her people from yoke of romans and avenged death of her husband and rape of her daughters, united tribes of eastern Albion.
Stalin - heavy casualties in WWII, famines in time of peace, repressions, executions, forced labor camps, abdication of people right from their homes and manipulation of citizens into assistance in these inhuman practices by promise of material rewards.
Napoleon - war that ruined several countries of Europe, appointed himself as monarch, rejecting the democratic practices, drained country by sweeping more than a whole generation of people into military service and wars.
Boudica - doomed her people into even worse yoke, as well as eradicated tens of thousands of people - hanged, burned, cut in pieces, impaled and crucified. Not soldiers - citizens from roman cities. With additional violence killed noble women, sacrificing them to Adnraste.
Every person with sweet words can be a liar, an abuser, wishing to use people for their personal ambitions. Or worse - sincerely believing that their course of actions, regardless of how much of butchering of innocents it involves - can be necessary for well being of these people.
Every tyrant, every monster in our history achieved their high position not through the crime and treachery alone, nobody is 100% pure villain, all the evil made by these people goes hand by hand with some good. Some right decisions, some good traits, some wise ideas - which in eyes of people living at the time could outweigh or obscure the crimes.
THAT is how tyrants and criminals supposed to be remembered. With bad - and good, with fact that each contained *both*. People, who deal with big responsibility, deserve no tolerance and forgiveness - they to be judged with no remorse. If they commit crimes - they are to answer for those crimes, no matter what good they are bringing to the country or the people in the process.
27
@Nisse_Hult
****"Ok. So that's the norm for all foreign movies screened in Russia then?"
Pretty much. We do have our own movies as well, even have a so called "cinema fund" - which supposed to provide finances for promising new movie makers. Instead it acts as shit-Midas, turning every film it sponsors into an empty flop, filled of nothing but advertising. So main supplier of films in our movie theaters is still Hollywood.
****"from apologists of the old Confederacy"
...which started not because of issue of slavery alone. A fact that chunk of USA population is as happy to erase as Bolsheviks were happy to erase February Revolution and to claim that THEY have forced emperor into abdication.
So yes, I believe I sound very similar to these people - my country already went through age of denial of historical facts and that resulted in... Let me see... Tyranny, government isolated from people, corruption, wars, repressions, terror, landgrabs, and enormous amount of other despeakable acts through history of the Union, as well as left a fertile soil for new wave of propaganda.
****"no serious person ever claimed we could or should do such a thing"
Absolutely, people were never vanishing from history or being replaced by somebody else.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z5568NtjN-w/U6YTG2gWfwI/AAAAAAAAE1o/kXh4Dt8pwNo/s1600/Image+22.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Septimusseverustondo.jpg
https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/52af7f81eab8eaf20465faca-960-551.jpg
https://cdn8.openculture.com/2017/08/20195102/soviet-censorship-naval-commissar-vanishes.jpg
http://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/abraham-lincoln-doctored-photoshopped-john-calhoun-body.jpg?w=800&h=534
****"most reasonable people can agree we actually only erect those over people we want to HONOR - right?"
Wrong. Statue is not a thing person earns purely through good accomplishment. Sometimes statues - are works of art, and sometimes they are works of art that are just showing something that sculptor viewed as important to memorize in stone or metal. Not always it is something honorable, or pleasant. Though, much easier is to show that in paintings. But statues - exist too.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/59/76/14/5976141fc0875411761b80e22f483bfd.jpg
https://amanyadic.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/dsc1417.jpg?w=662
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oj_sE8VLCHc/TwjTKus70wI/AAAAAAAAAng/0zNZf2HPcO4/s1600/Rizal+Execution_n.jpg
http://www.geocaching.su/photos/areas/4424.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f8/6e/26/f86e2652831695f865aca470b7073255--battle-of-borodino-french-army.jpg
http://asbarez.com/App/Asbarez/eng/2015/04/Syd-1.png
http://firstnewz.ru/uploads/posts/2018-01/15153567071pamjatnik.jpeg
https://media0ch-a.akamaihd.net/67/79/5da213f567a63d79fd75ed2097f04e18.jpg
And sometimes these statues are dedicated to memory of sorrowful events, or to memory of people who perished in wars - soldiers included. Tell me, how many memorials to soldiers of Germany that perished in WWII do you know? Were crimes of their commanders and of some of them so dire, that *none* of them deserves being remembered as a human being, and not a stereotypic "bad guy" from movies and video games..? And where *else* do they even appear mentioned, at all? Exactly.
****"At least as long as there are still idiots who see him as a hero."
You plan to wait until the thermal death of the universe itself? There are ALWAYS people with unorthodox views on things. Some people thing the Earth is flat, some thing homeopathy is effective, some are certain eating past 6 PM leads to obesity, some are sure Angelina Jolie's chest is real, and some are pretty sure it is normal for Merkel to go on a 4th term as head of government.
People not always agree in everything. Especially when they get selective with the information.
****"he only brought death and destruction to Germany"
Reduced unemployment, stabilized national currency, gave the start to construction of "Autoban", increased state industry and introduced "marriage loans" for newly created families. That is to name few things he brought to Germany along with racism, genocide, war and destruction.
Like it or not, even monstrous persons sometimes do things right, and it is also important to remember because sometimes people do things right - and you forgive them some amount of corruption, calculating that their accomplishments compensate their crimes.
Stalin brought industrialization to Soviet Union, de facto *created* the said Union in first place, made it endure in WWII and laid foundation to developments achieved after his death.
Napoleon Bonaparte brought sanctity of private property, equality in face of law and social competition based not on heritage, but on merit.
Boudica liberated her people from yoke of romans and avenged death of her husband and rape of her daughters, united tribes of eastern Albion.
Stalin - heavy casualties in WWII, famines in time of peace, repressions, executions, forced labor camps, abdication of people right from their homes and manipulation of citizens into assistance in these inhuman practices by promise of material rewards.
Napoleon - war that ruined several countries of Europe, appointed himself as monarch, rejecting the democratic practices, drained country by sweeping more than a whole generation of people into military service and wars.
Boudica - doomed her people into even worse yoke, as well as eradicated tens of thousands of people - hanged, burned, cut in pieces, impaled and crucified. Not soldiers - citizens from roman cities. With additional violence killed noble women, sacrificing them to Adnraste.
Every person with sweet words can be a liar, an abuser, wishing to use people for their personal ambitions. Or worse - sincerely believing that their course of actions, regardless of how much of butchering of innocents it involves - can be necessary for well being of these people.
Every tyrant, every monster in our history achieved their high position not through the crime and treachery alone, nobody is 100% pure villain, all the evil made by these people goes hand by hand with some good. Some right decisions, some good traits, some wise ideas - which in eyes of people living at the time could outweigh or obscure the crimes.
THAT is how tyrants and criminals supposed to be remembered. With bad - and good, with fact that each contained *both*. People, who deal with big responsibility, deserve no tolerance and forgiveness - they to be judged with no remorse. If they commit crimes - they are to answer for those crimes, no matter what good they are bringing to the country or the people in the process.