Nowadays I live in Hampshire but originally I come from S Lincolnshire.
Actually you misunderstand. I didn't vote in the referendum on exit because of family matters. Was looking after my mother at the time, who has since passed on , so was away from where I live. If I had I was uncertain because while I deeply mistrust the EU for its behaviour I was aware that leaving the EU would leave us even more in the hands of the Tories, who I probably trust even less.
Since then I've become even more disgusted with both sides. The chaotic mess the Tories have made of it and the outright lying to people like Barnier. Note I'm referring to what he and other EU members have said, not any interpretation of them in the British media. Demands for special privileges for EU people over British inside Britain, consistent cherry picking and moving the goal posts etc.
The Tories have made an awful mess of things but they should have realised at least a year ago that the EU had no intention of real negotiation and started planning for a no deal option. Get some trade deals in place and beef up customs for when Britexit is completed and the tariff barriers the EU insists on comes into place. Accept that it won't allow a continuation of the open border with Ireland and talk with Dublin to see if we can minimise the damage to both countries. [Possibly May's biggest single error was to accept the idea that Britain is responsible for finding a way to make the EU accept an open border because its the EU that rejects that, whereas both the governments and population of the UK and Ireland want it to continue] Even for the Thatcherite Tories its been a blood crap performance.
So no we definitely disagree on what the problem is. Britain has made serious internal problems but we have been badly done by the EU partly because it was designed for a different society, [continental, introvert, centralised] and partly because too often British leaders sought to play by the rules rather than put Britain first as many other members have. This has compounded by the serious mess that our own governments over recent decades have. Both sides are at fault and it angers me when the fanatics on either side seek to put all the blame on the other. I found it ironic when Barnier mentioned about a Farage in every country when its been people like him with their contempt for what ordinary people want who have generated the support for such idiots.
60
@Daru
Nowadays I live in Hampshire but originally I come from S Lincolnshire.
Actually you misunderstand. I didn't vote in the referendum on exit because of family matters. Was looking after my mother at the time, who has since passed on
Since then I've become even more disgusted with both sides. The chaotic mess the Tories have made of it and the outright lying to people like Barnier. Note I'm referring to what he and other EU members have said, not any interpretation of them in the British media. Demands for special privileges for EU people over British inside Britain, consistent cherry picking and moving the goal posts etc.
The Tories have made an awful mess of things but they should have realised at least a year ago that the EU had no intention of real negotiation and started planning for a no deal option. Get some trade deals in place and beef up customs for when Britexit is completed and the tariff barriers the EU insists on comes into place. Accept that it won't allow a continuation of the open border with Ireland and talk with Dublin to see if we can minimise the damage to both countries. [Possibly May's biggest single error was to accept the idea that Britain is responsible for finding a way to make the EU accept an open border because its the EU that rejects that, whereas both the governments and population of the UK and Ireland want it to continue] Even for the Thatcherite Tories its been a blood crap performance.
So no we definitely disagree on what the problem is. Britain has made serious internal problems but we have been badly done by the EU partly because it was designed for a different society, [continental, introvert, centralised] and partly because too often British leaders sought to play by the rules rather than put Britain first as many other members have. This has compounded by the serious mess that our own governments over recent decades have. Both sides are at fault and it angers me when the fanatics on either side seek to put all the blame on the other. I found it ironic when Barnier mentioned about a Farage in every country when its been people like him with their contempt for what ordinary people want who have generated the support for such idiots.