Scandinavia and the World
 

Comments #9664788:


Dear Sister 30 7, 9:32pm

@Jonas_Hrafnagil

You posted a completely false piece of propaganda and when confronted about that claim it was all a joke. Well, that's what people shooting their mouth of today does when they get caught. I guess you don't know any better - you've seen people offer that excuse your whole life and probably think that's acceptable.

I'm however old enough to remember when that transparent lie wasn't accepted as an excuse.
Neither was pretending to be "joking" about serious issues, posting infantile memes or talking about "butthurt" viewed as a serious response in a serious discussion.
But that's all part of the internet cultures infantilization of modern discourse, unfortunately.

Regarding "butthurt" I guess you're the one experiencing that sensation, as I never even remembered that discussion until you brought it up (and only vaguely remember it now).
I've had hundreds of discussions on here - it's not like I remember them after they're concluded. Especially not when they are inconsequential.

Regarding the substantive point, again then: No, the picture is in no way "actually very accurate, at least to Cold War standards" as you claim. That's once again completely wrong. Cubans didn't starve during the Cold War.

Neither is this quote by you correct:
"Things have improved a lot in Cuba and I would contribute that mostly to Obama's willingness to open some form of trade with them again and lifting sanctions (since after the USSR fell, Cuba stopped receiving their desperately needed money)."

What actually happened in Cuba was that since the US inflicted an illegal embargo against the nation in the 60's they have not been able to conduct meaningful trade relations with most of the world since.
That left basically only the Warsaw-pact countries open for trade with Cuba and as a consequence that's how their entire economy was developed.

They grew cash crops like sugar, tobacco, coffee and bananas for the Warsaw-pact which countries can't grow those crops themselves because of the climate they have - and they in turn received oil, fertilizer and finished machinery parts.

Now when the Warsaw-pact and Soviet Union collapsed that of course meant that Cubas international trade and as a consequence their economical basis collapsed as well - because the US embargo meant that they simply couldn't trade with any other nations.

So for a time in the 90's the Cuban economy did suffer badly and they had to transform their whole economy to be almost completely self sufficient.

But unlike North Korea this has never been a choice by Cuba. Their entire dependency on the Warsaw-pact and current reliance on self sufficiency has always been the result of the illegal US embargo.

Or in other words - Cubas situation during and after the Cold War has never been a result of their own choosing or their governing ideology, but by the embargo put on them by the US.

Obama choosing to opening up contact with Cuba was clearly the right thing to do, but it's not in any way like Cubans where starving until he did so.

Instead Cuba had through 50 years showed they could handle anything the US could throw at them and still survive no matter what.

What Obama understood was that like North Koreas voluntarily chosen isolation, Cubas forced isolation in effect only preserved the Cuban dictatorship - so the US policy towards Cuba was clearly counter productive to US interests, not to mention unfair to the Cuban people.

If you're truly interested in Cuba you should read up on the beginnings of the modern Cuba under Castro. It's a text book example of what US intelligence calls "blowback" - how the unintended consequences of US policy towards Cuba ended up turning the country into a Soviet ally.

Cuba was never allowed to develop independently by the US - that's why Cuba looks the way it does today.





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