Odds and Ends
Two fools in a restaurant
22 12, 11:37pm
Nice to see someone else commenting and producing actual arguments that haven't been repeated and countered dozens of times already. :-)
And a lot of the arguments you give are actually good and valid as well.
"Whether or not your point is valid the venom and anger you are showing kills any chance you have of convincing anyone to join you."
Yes, you're right my tone in some of these responses is probably not going to convert any of the people I'm addressing my comments to.
A better person then me would be able to argue the same points without getting annoyed for as long as I have, but unfortunately I'm not that dispassionate.
After having had this discussion dozens of times with people producing no new arguments what so ever, only repeating the same - already countered arguments - I'm getting a bit annoyed - which shows in my writing.
That's not optimal, but I'm only human after all. And while the people I'm talking directly to probably are less likely to see the point I'm making because of it, it's not actually the case that it "kills any chance you have of convincing anyone to join you" like you write.
Because the points I'm making are still valid, even if I'm making them in an annoyed tone.
"People make clear and reasonable comments, to which you respond with anger and insults."
Well that's actually in dispute as I see them as being entitled whinings from people who should know that:
1) this has been expressed countless times already (in some cases by the same people now whining about it again)
2) Humon has the complete right to decide every single aspect of this comic and has no obligation what so ever to listen to any of the objections they raise
3) She's shown no interest what so ever to change her decision, despite these objection having been raised, with the exact same arguments, countless times already
Which leads me to the conclusion that this is not in any way "reasonable comments" as you see them, but just endless whining, like kids in the grocery isle crying about how they want candy when their mom already told them no repeatedly.
But while children have the excuse of being children, these are supposed to be adult's that still haven't learnt to behave properly, and after having told them so repeatedly I find it annoying that they never learn.
As I said - a better person would make this point more dispassionately, but that I'm not able to at this time doesn't actually weaken the points I'm making.
"And to your opinion that nothing said once should be said again, I remind you that we are not one entity. These comments are made up of dozens if not hundreds of individuals from around the world. We do not share the same language, background, humor, or view points. If a statement is made by one it is the view of one person out of many. If it is made by many It is not one person saying it over and over again. It is many voicing their agreement with the opinion."
In some cases this is true, while in others it is not.
I haven't traced ever single comment from every single person, but I know there are people who've repeatedly raised this point in several different comics over time.
So it's certainly not the case that every single person holding this opinion has only brought it up once.
But this site is also a community, so every single person doesn't need to make a comment about every single thing - sometimes it should be enough to know that a subject has been raised for an adult to feel that they don't also have to repeat the exact same arguments again.
This is especially true in a situation like this, where Humon's right to draw what ever she wants however she wants it shouldn't be in dispute. It's her comic and she has the right as both as an individual and as an artist to depict the world as SHE sees it.
She's providing this view of hers for free to us as a source of enjoyment to others, she expects or demands nothing in return.
Of course she knows everyone won't like everything she does and I'm sure she's perfectly fine with people expressing their opinion - but this has now gone on for months and it should be clear to everybody this criticism is now just pointless whining. Humon's not going to change her decision because of the people whining about this, but still they whine. Which only gives the impression that they're not actually respecting that her choice to draw as she pleases trumps their opinions.
At which point this just becomes rude to Humon.
The people whining are also perfectly fine accepting free comics from her as they still hang around - but they won't accept her choice in this matter - which shows an entitled attitude where they expect free stuff and still feel their right to bitch about it supersedes any respect for the artist providing them the free stuff.
If I had been as annoyed by something Humon did as these people I simply wouldn't have come back to the site. Because I'd still accept her right to depict the world how ever she saw it.
I certainly wouldn't feel that I had the right to endlessly whine on her to remake the comic more to my liking - and it certainly wouldn't reflect well on me if I did.
You don't always get everything you want in life - adults know this and can deal with it.
Only spoilt children whine about everything not being exactly to their liking.
"Step back from the computer and read what you are saying out loud. If you heard a stranger using the tone you are would you think they were making a valid point or would they sound like they were trying to shout someone down?"
Again, I accept your point that I'm not expressing my points in the most moderate way in this last thread - a better person would have expressed them better, I agree.
But honesty, I actually don't put that much importance on the tone of a persons comments.
Most important for me is always the substance of the argument a person is making - is it the stronger or the weaker argument compared to the other party in the discussion?
After that I still might feel that the person making the stronger argument had a more disagreeable tone - but unless I've followed the entire forum for a time and gotten to know the characters I'd also know that I'm only viewing part of a larger discussion.
Maybe the person sounding more disagreeable had good reason to be so? Or maybe he/she didn't?
The rub of the matter for me would still be the actual arguments being presented.
I can't say everyone thinks like this, but I can honestly say that's how I usually view these things anyway.