Scandinavia and the World
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Comments #9821513:


Armed to immobilize 5 9, 3:01pm

@Isdaril utilitarian argument is valid as long as it's used consistently. I don't see how it can be used consistently to call for ban on guns, but not cars.

"I personnaly see no reasons whatsoever for almost anybody to own a gun "
I lived through 90s in Russia and seen plenty of evidence that any other instrument of self-defense is mostly useless in serious situations. If you tried to use pepper spray, gas pistol and trauma gun for self-defense and failed (and they fail a lot), you've just signed up for at least a heavy cranial injury.
Incidentally, gun debate in Russia revolves around lifting ban on civilian ownership of handguns, while popularity of trauma guns is steadily increasing.
Then there is that whole thing about armed population acting as deterrent against use of force by government, and a side effect of having a reserve of people proficient in firearms use that can be used by law enforcement or military.

"On the other end, most people don't need a gun to go to work or have a social life."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/
CDC study linked in the article, along with some explanations. You can go directly to study and search for "Protective Effects of Gun Ownership".
Ultimate example would be a meme about Roof Koreans. While humorous now, it certainly was serious amid of race riot. Battle of Athens (google it, it's not Greek Athens) was an interesting case too.

"I'm not saying a life without cars is impossible, but as things are standing currently, it is really hard to enforce an immediate ban on cars"
It's really hard to enforce a ban on already sold guns too. New Zealand is an example of that.

"because most people need to have one just to continue living"
Greens been pushing in favor of mass transit for a long time. People can go to work, hospital or school on a bus, everything else is an optional privilege on par with feeling safe from home invasion or physical violence. Ultimately, this is an example that most societies accept certain death toll as a cost of convenience and don't like to think about it.

"it should be done gradually over the years with a lot of compensations given to those who have to move away from that mean of transportation"
If the absolute number of deaths would be seen as important, that process would have started decades ago and finished by now. At very least ban on sale of new cars and transfer of existing ones would been easy to implement, as long as population was willing to accept that.

"Seems like Russia is not banning guns but it doesn't seem to get better over there either (as you mentioned you got mass shootings too)"
According to statistics, legally owned guns were used in only 8% of gun-related crimes in 2010-2015, most of those were cases of illegal hunting. Half of illegally owned guns are coming from interior troops, military or police weapon lockers, 17% from "conflict zones" (aka Caucasus and Ukraine), 14% are stolen from manufacturers, 5% are dug up and restored WWII weapons. Everything else is either stolen from owners, or scratch-built or conversions of trauma, gas or pneumatic guns.
Increase of legal gun ownership so far was almost completely detached from gun crimes, while mass shootings are overshadowed by terrorists using bombs or psychotic school students using knives.

The most obvious way in which Russia is better than US in handling gun violence is that we don't have Baltimore, Chicago or New York, while most people with mental health issues are either too destitute to have a gun (or a car, or anything really) and have to resort by other means of killing themselves and whoever else voices in their heads want dead. So, officially, in Russia only 4380 people were killed with guns in 2016, and 38% of those are suicides.
That means that out of total 10.4k murders and attempted murders in 2016, only about a third were committed using guns, vast majority of which were owned illegally. So, adjusted for population size, Russia had at least 50-80% (actual numbers are difficult to compare since in Russia numbers for murders and attempted murders are combined) more murders than US, but 70% of those who died were stabbed, hacked, beaten or strangled to death, and more than 20% were killed with illegally owned guns (and I assume that most were killed with handguns which show up in gun crime statistics, are illegal for civilian use and wouldn't be sold in the first place). All while semi-automatic rifles and shotguns (which every progressive in US seems to want to ban) are as legal and as easy to get as manually or pump-loaded guns, and handguns are limited to security guards and police.





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