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The big shame
I spend the weekend with a pair of girls from the Faroe Islands and we ended up talking about the whale killings and this "article" [link]
It basically gets everything wrong. They don't use hooks, but knifes and axes. It looks bloody, but that's because it's in the sea.
I'm neither for or against it, but I know it will turn into a massive discussion in the comments, so try to keep it civil.
11th January 2012
2:15am Mon 14th May #8335246
@TheUnknownIsland: I have no problem with hunting in general as long as it's sustainable (i.e. doesn't deplete the stock beyond its ability to survive). Btw, that's just as relevant vis-a-vis commercial fishing, forrestry and land degradation due to farming.
Your numbers sound alarming, but most whaling is agreed upon in the International Convention on Whaling (Japan, Norway, Iceland. These are based exactly on sustainability. For instance the 140 gray whales allowed as a maximum for native people in the Chukotka region don't necessarily mean they do kill that many. And the gray whale's conservation status has been classified as "least concern" since 2008 with a population well over 20.000. The bowhead whale is also "least concern" (est. pop. 24,900) as is humpback (est. pop. 80,000) and the minke (est. Atlantic pop. 103,000, Antarctic pop. 338k-760k), btw.
You can't just make one blanket prediction on all whale species. Some are extremely endangered while other species flourish. Of course we shouldn't return to the "bad old days" of unlimited commercial whaling, but today's limited whaling by (Japan, Norway and Iceland aside) mostly by indigenous populations with quotas (not Faroese) set by the IWC seems to be a working solution. If anyone is interested the IWC limits can be found here: [link]
Even if we assumed full use of the North Atlantic minke whale quotes, that would mean a maximum of less than 1500 out of a population of around 107,000, or around 1,5% of the population. Since few quotas are actually used to the limit (Norway for instance average catches around 500, less than half its annual quota for minke whales) the situation is of even less concern.
Japan's minke quotas in the Antarctic are based on more shaky data and estimates have varied from a low of 338,000 to a high of 760,000. But even with the lowest estimate, Japan's actual yearly catches of 400-1100 would hardly make a dent in the population (far less than 1%) - even when we factor in that minke whales only reproduce every second year.
When it comes down to it, I think people should worry more about overfishing than whaling. But of course fish are "icky" and far less "likeable", and you wouldn't get photage a la Whale Wars.
It's also a far greater risk to an eco-system if you remove lower or middle predators (fish) than if the top predators (whales) are removed, since humans simply fill the top predators' space. In the world's oceans, man is effectively already the top predator due to effectively planetwide, industrial scale, commercial fishing by mostly Northern hemisphere vessels (Europe and Japan in particular).
@TheUnknownIsland: I have no problem with hunting in general as long as it's sustainable (i.e. doesn't deplete the stock beyond its ability to survive). Btw, that's just as relevant vis-a-vis commercial fishing, forrestry and land degradation due to farming.
Your numbers sound alarming, but most whaling is agreed upon in the International Convention on Whaling (Japan, Norway, Iceland. These are based exactly on sustainability. For instance the 140 gray whales allowed as a maximum for native people in the Chukotka region don't necessarily mean they do kill that many. And the gray whale's conservation status has been classified as "least concern" since 2008 with a population well over 20.000. The bowhead whale is also "least concern" (est. pop. 24,900) as is humpback (est. pop. 80,000) and the minke (est. Atlantic pop. 103,000, Antarctic pop. 338k-760k), btw.
You can't just make one blanket prediction on all whale species. Some are extremely endangered while other species flourish. Of course we shouldn't return to the "bad old days" of unlimited commercial whaling, but today's limited whaling by (Japan, Norway and Iceland aside) mostly by indigenous populations with quotas (not Faroese) set by the IWC seems to be a working solution. If anyone is interested the IWC limits can be found here: [link]
Even if we assumed full use of the North Atlantic minke whale quotes, that would mean a maximum of less than 1500 out of a population of around 107,000, or around 1,5% of the population. Since few quotas are actually used to the limit (Norway for instance average catches around 500, less than half its annual quota for minke whales) the situation is of even less concern.
Japan's minke quotas in the Antarctic are based on more shaky data and estimates have varied from a low of 338,000 to a high of 760,000. But even with the lowest estimate, Japan's actual yearly catches of 400-1100 would hardly make a dent in the population (far less than 1%) - even when we factor in that minke whales only reproduce every second year.
When it comes down to it, I think people should worry more about overfishing than whaling. But of course fish are "icky" and far less "likeable", and you wouldn't get photage a la Whale Wars.
It's also a far greater risk to an eco-system if you remove lower or middle predators (fish) than if the top predators (whales) are removed, since humans simply fill the top predators' space. In the world's oceans, man is effectively already the top predator due to effectively planetwide, industrial scale, commercial fishing by mostly Northern hemisphere vessels (Europe and Japan in particular).
10:35pm Sun 13th May #8335167
Worldwide vandalism against different people for a political reason angers me, do I show up Paul Watson's home and throw raw pork at him screaming cannibalism is wrong? No? Well what the bloody hell are all these dumb twats that probably either slept with their anthropology professor to pass or don't even know what it is, doing picking on the people from the Faroe islands? Oh trying to feel big and tough? Ugh.
Worldwide vandalism against different people for a political reason angers me, do I show up Paul Watson's home and throw raw pork at him screaming cannibalism is wrong? No? Well what the bloody hell are all these dumb twats that probably either slept with their anthropology professor to pass or don't even know what it is, doing picking on the people from the Faroe islands? Oh trying to feel big and tough? Ugh.
2:13pm Sun 6th May #8326211
@Ericthepilot Yes, you come too late. It was already discussed in the forum.
@Ericthepilot Yes, you come too late. It was already discussed in the forum.
10:05pm Sat 5th May #8325072
has anyone discussed the possible health risks of eating cetacean meat?
[link]
has anyone discussed the possible health risks of eating cetacean meat?
[link]
6:37pm Sat 5th May #8324852
Well I believe its a matter of conservation: Most of the time its easy to breed cows and chickens in America and able to slaughter them for food, yes I've seen what REALLY goes down, but whales are hard to breed. So it's looked down upon to kill whales.
Well I believe its a matter of conservation: Most of the time its easy to breed cows and chickens in America and able to slaughter them for food, yes I've seen what REALLY goes down, but whales are hard to breed. So it's looked down upon to kill whales.
2:46pm Sat 5th May #8324540
If this is supposed to be bad, anyone seen how most companies treat cows in America? Chickens too, I dare you to watch Food Inc.
If this is supposed to be bad, anyone seen how most companies treat cows in America? Chickens too, I dare you to watch Food Inc.
12:29pm Sat 5th May #8324261
For those that don't know: Whales are delicious. I had some about half a year ago and it was probably the most delicious thing I've tasted from the sea.
Sincerely,
An Icelander.
For those that don't know: Whales are delicious. I had some about half a year ago and it was probably the most delicious thing I've tasted from the sea.
Sincerely,
An Icelander.
4:33am Wed 2nd May #8319504
In my opinion the Faroese can kill and eat a few whales every year which don't belong to an endangered species. I don't understand why we talk about the Faroese and their whale killing and not about Norway and Japan.
In my opinion the Faroese can kill and eat a few whales every year which don't belong to an endangered species. I don't understand why we talk about the Faroese and their whale killing and not about Norway and Japan.
2:37pm Tue 1st May #8318692
@OnlyMe @Thefaroeseone @DonHenri @Faroe @faorefax @Faroefan1 @JustanoteherFaroe3 @Johanb @Vroomy @Anya @siovim @mspinkunicorns Frå kva for eit sted på Færøyene kjem de?/Fra hvilket sted på Færøyene kommer dere?
@OnlyMe @Thefaroeseone @DonHenri @Faroe @faorefax @Faroefan1 @JustanoteherFaroe3 @Johanb @Vroomy @Anya @siovim @mspinkunicorns Frå kva for eit sted på Færøyene kjem de?/Fra hvilket sted på Færøyene kommer dere?
9:07am Tue 1st May #8318076
Just the other day, I was watching Discovery Channel, when suddenly something about the Faroe Islands popped up, and my first thought was, "Like in SatW!" Then the show took a rather dramatic turn to how such a peaceful place took part in something as vicious as whale killing (My reaction: "Humon was spot on about how angry people get."), and I realized it was Whale Wars.
[link]
Just the other day, I was watching Discovery Channel, when suddenly something about the Faroe Islands popped up, and my first thought was, "Like in SatW!" Then the show took a rather dramatic turn to how such a peaceful place took part in something as vicious as whale killing (My reaction: "Humon was spot on about how angry people get."), and I realized it was Whale Wars.
[link]
4:33pm Mon 30th Apr #8317217
It's estimated that in the during the age of Antarctic exploration, roughly 80% of the whales in the Southern Ocean were killed off. Primarily by Russian and Norwegian whalers. Because whales tend to be relatively solitary, as well as their extremely long life-cycle, they haven't reproduced as much and the populations of whales hasn't come anywhere close to pre-1700s numbers. It doesn't help that for the past few years the Japanese have been saying that they're only collecting x amount of whales, but instead collect a larger number and have been basically ignoring everybody on the subject.
It's estimated that in the during the age of Antarctic exploration, roughly 80% of the whales in the Southern Ocean were killed off. Primarily by Russian and Norwegian whalers. Because whales tend to be relatively solitary, as well as their extremely long life-cycle, they haven't reproduced as much and the populations of whales hasn't come anywhere close to pre-1700s numbers. It doesn't help that for the past few years the Japanese have been saying that they're only collecting x amount of whales, but instead collect a larger number and have been basically ignoring everybody on the subject.
7:10am Thu 26th Apr #8310259
Nah, the world will be fine.. They did it before 1710, so if anything were to happen because of it, it would have already happened..
Besides, when it comes to balancing stuff like this, the earth is way better, than we think. And way better than us anyways.
Nah, the world will be fine.. They did it before 1710, so if anything were to happen because of it, it would have already happened..
Besides, when it comes to balancing stuff like this, the earth is way better, than we think. And way better than us anyways.
9:47pm Wed 25th Apr #8310005
@ TheUnknownIsland
Theres nothing wrong with killing a wide-spread species of whale as long as you keep track of how many you kill and how many are left. And living on an island with no other resources besides the whales leaves you with no other option. Don't get me wrong, I love all animals and nature, but I don't see the problem as long as the balance is carefuly monitored and maintained.
@ TheUnknownIsland
Theres nothing wrong with killing a wide-spread species of whale as long as you keep track of how many you kill and how many are left. And living on an island with no other resources besides the whales leaves you with no other option. Don't get me wrong, I love all animals and nature, but I don't see the problem as long as the balance is carefuly monitored and maintained.
6:34pm Tue 24th Apr #8308513
If you killed whales other animals that the whales eat will over populate and they will run out of food dieing out and the predators that are eating the many animals will die out when their half of their food sources are gone. And this pattern will keep repeating till it reaches the land. What would happen if all the salmon and tuna died out how many creatures would also die out or overpopulate. So go ahead kill the whales it will be your problem in the future not mine.
If you killed whales other animals that the whales eat will over populate and they will run out of food dieing out and the predators that are eating the many animals will die out when their half of their food sources are gone. And this pattern will keep repeating till it reaches the land. What would happen if all the salmon and tuna died out how many creatures would also die out or overpopulate. So go ahead kill the whales it will be your problem in the future not mine.
6:29pm Tue 24th Apr #8308511
On average this is how many whales die a year
Canada: 1 bowhead whale every two years from Hudson Bay. 1 bowhead whale every 13 years from Baffin Bay.
Faroe Islands: 950 pilot whales (actually a species of dolphin) a year.
Greenland: 175 whales a year.
Iceland: 30 minke whales and 9 fin whales a year.
Indonesia: Two small islands in Indonesia hunt whales with traditional harpoons thrown from small open boats. Between 10 and 20 whales a year.
Japan: The quota for 2009-2010 was 935 minke, 50 fin and 50 humpback whales, but the Japanese fishing fleet returned home with less than half their catch after opposition and disruption from anti-whaling ships. About 20,000 dolphins and small whales are killed each year by coastal fishers. in 2009 about 150 large whales were accidentally caught in fishing nets used for coastal fish.
Norway: The quota for 2011 was 1286 minke whales.
Russia: The native people in the Chukotka region kill 140 grey whales a year.
St Vincent the The Grenadines: 4 humpback whales a year using traditional boats and harpoons.
United States: Indigenous communities in Alaska kill 50 bowhead whales a year.
so it is not only faroe islands its countries around the other countries as well. So you know what kill them kill them all you like but it will be you suffering when their all gone and the whole ocean eco-system is messed up and nearly half the oceans species die out cuz whales arent their, and then many coastal creatures will die out then inland creatures and soon half the animals OF THE WORLD. and youll probably say how do i know this and im gonna say i research.
On average this is how many whales die a year
Canada: 1 bowhead whale every two years from Hudson Bay. 1 bowhead whale every 13 years from Baffin Bay.
Faroe Islands: 950 pilot whales (actually a species of dolphin) a year.
Greenland: 175 whales a year.
Iceland: 30 minke whales and 9 fin whales a year.
Indonesia: Two small islands in Indonesia hunt whales with traditional harpoons thrown from small open boats. Between 10 and 20 whales a year.
Japan: The quota for 2009-2010 was 935 minke, 50 fin and 50 humpback whales, but the Japanese fishing fleet returned home with less than half their catch after opposition and disruption from anti-whaling ships. About 20,000 dolphins and small whales are killed each year by coastal fishers. in 2009 about 150 large whales were accidentally caught in fishing nets used for coastal fish.
Norway: The quota for 2011 was 1286 minke whales.
Russia: The native people in the Chukotka region kill 140 grey whales a year.
St Vincent the The Grenadines: 4 humpback whales a year using traditional boats and harpoons.
United States: Indigenous communities in Alaska kill 50 bowhead whales a year.
so it is not only faroe islands its countries around the other countries as well. So you know what kill them kill them all you like but it will be you suffering when their all gone and the whole ocean eco-system is messed up and nearly half the oceans species die out cuz whales arent their, and then many coastal creatures will die out then inland creatures and soon half the animals OF THE WORLD. and youll probably say how do i know this and im gonna say i research.
6:19pm Tue 24th Apr #8308506
And pigs cows sheep have been bred for hundereds of years to be eaten. THEY HAVE BEEN DOMESTICATED. THEIR ARE HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS AND THEY ARENT GONNA DIE OUT ANYTIME SOON CUZ WE KEEP BREEDING THEM!!!!!! WHALES HOWEVER ARENT BEING BRED THEY ARENT MILLIONS OF THEM AND THEY WILL PROBABLY NOT LAST FOREVER IF PEOPLE KEEP KILLING THEEEEM.
And pigs cows sheep have been bred for hundereds of years to be eaten. THEY HAVE BEEN DOMESTICATED. THEIR ARE HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS AND THEY ARENT GONNA DIE OUT ANYTIME SOON CUZ WE KEEP BREEDING THEM!!!!!! WHALES HOWEVER ARENT BEING BRED THEY ARENT MILLIONS OF THEM AND THEY WILL PROBABLY NOT LAST FOREVER IF PEOPLE KEEP KILLING THEEEEM.
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Meh, humans are the top dogs, everything else on the planet is there for us to eat. Nomnomnomnomnomnomnom