A large poster, showing the Scandinavian boys, on thick Gloss Art 170gsm paper.
The big shame
I spend the weekend with a pair of girls from the Faroe Islands and we ended up talking about the whale killings and this "article" [link]
It basically gets everything wrong. They don't use hooks, but knifes and axes. It looks bloody, but that's because it's in the sea.
I'm neither for or against it, but I know it will turn into a massive discussion in the comments, so try to keep it civil.
11th January 2012
12:43pm Fri 17th Feb #8163731
@TemporalNacho, It's a bit like well-aged beef, I guess. Also has slight similarities to liver in general consistency when cooked, though not really in taste.
Also, I have to retract my statement regarding the Norwegian whaling thing, the minke whale is NOT critically endangered, it seems Green Peace had been editing wikipedia articles again... The minke whale is a species of least concern and there's plenty of it. Norwegian whaling kills less than 1000 of them per year.
@mickey, There's a very good reason not to eat apes; it's the same reason we don't eat people. They're high on the food chain and very close to us genetically; close enough that you can see the similarities. You will find that other primates such as monkeys are eaten as traditional food in many parts of the world.
@TemporalNacho, It's a bit like well-aged beef, I guess. Also has slight similarities to liver in general consistency when cooked, though not really in taste.
Also, I have to retract my statement regarding the Norwegian whaling thing, the minke whale is NOT critically endangered, it seems Green Peace had been editing wikipedia articles again... The minke whale is a species of least concern and there's plenty of it. Norwegian whaling kills less than 1000 of them per year.
@mickey, There's a very good reason not to eat apes; it's the same reason we don't eat people. They're high on the food chain and very close to us genetically; close enough that you can see the similarities. You will find that other primates such as monkeys are eaten as traditional food in many parts of the world.
8:24am Thu 16th Feb #8161169
Whaling is part of the culture.. And honestly, as much as I advocate humane treatment of animals, I think it's ok as long as they're not overhunted. We have the advantage nowadays of technology that makes it unfair, but primeval humans did it, too. Our ancestors way back when. So there's nothing wrong with some old-school whaling any more than there is with anything else like that if we don't overhunt.
Whaling is part of the culture.. And honestly, as much as I advocate humane treatment of animals, I think it's ok as long as they're not overhunted. We have the advantage nowadays of technology that makes it unfair, but primeval humans did it, too. Our ancestors way back when. So there's nothing wrong with some old-school whaling any more than there is with anything else like that if we don't overhunt.
4:42pm Wed 15th Feb #8160436
Hmm
regarding the comic, I don't think whaling is that much of a problem. I have eaten whale meat in a kind of stew one time in Norway, maybe different species though. That being said, in my country there has been an issue about dog eating. It was so bad that they even kidnap pet dogs from households, and I am all against it. However, if eating one living does not harm individual properties or the environment in anyway, I find it hard to agree that whale is not fit for eating.
But then again there is mercury content and other toxins, so I'd rather not eat whale again too.
Hmm
regarding the comic, I don't think whaling is that much of a problem. I have eaten whale meat in a kind of stew one time in Norway, maybe different species though. That being said, in my country there has been an issue about dog eating. It was so bad that they even kidnap pet dogs from households, and I am all against it. However, if eating one living does not harm individual properties or the environment in anyway, I find it hard to agree that whale is not fit for eating.
But then again there is mercury content and other toxins, so I'd rather not eat whale again too.
2:56pm Wed 15th Feb #8160172
@mickey
Your argument is entirely based on opinions as well, and you've said so yourself several times. What's wrong with opinions?
It is a tradition and it is tasty, but that's not the only reason they do it; it's an efficient, natural, and economical way to get food for their people. I told you that already.
The statement about the monkeys in Africa, I have no knowledge on that subject. However, I'm sure that if they DID eat those primates, you'd be furious even though they'd starve otherwise.
I never, at any point, said that I hated whales. I don't mind whales, in fact I rather like them. I agree that they are intelligent creatures and that they should not be hunted to extinction. However, the population of the pilot whales is in no evident danger and Faroese aren't over hunting them, so I have no problem with it. Of course it ends up with a kill, it's hunting. That's just the way it goes; circle of life and all that.
Of course humans should be more careful and thoughtful when dealing with nature, no one could disagree with that. But the hunting of pilot whales in the Faroe Islands is obviously not disrupting the natural balance much if at all; it's been going on for centuries, if we were in trouble, we'd have realized it by now.
@mickey
Your argument is entirely based on opinions as well, and you've said so yourself several times. What's wrong with opinions?
It is a tradition and it is tasty, but that's not the only reason they do it; it's an efficient, natural, and economical way to get food for their people. I told you that already.
The statement about the monkeys in Africa, I have no knowledge on that subject. However, I'm sure that if they DID eat those primates, you'd be furious even though they'd starve otherwise.
I never, at any point, said that I hated whales. I don't mind whales, in fact I rather like them. I agree that they are intelligent creatures and that they should not be hunted to extinction. However, the population of the pilot whales is in no evident danger and Faroese aren't over hunting them, so I have no problem with it. Of course it ends up with a kill, it's hunting. That's just the way it goes; circle of life and all that.
Of course humans should be more careful and thoughtful when dealing with nature, no one could disagree with that. But the hunting of pilot whales in the Faroe Islands is obviously not disrupting the natural balance much if at all; it's been going on for centuries, if we were in trouble, we'd have realized it by now.
5:45am Wed 15th Feb #8158832
@TemporalNacho Ok, for the last time, i wrote in English about hunting, in general! Secondly, all the so called arguments that you people that support whaling are just your opinions, no proves whatsoever - trust me i looked for infos! The only arguments are: its a tradition and it tastes good! I think this sort of attitude is not fair in a world that try to evolves because its like saying I'm better than all animals because I was born a human, the "high school bully" attitude i call it. And this is because you are not hunting for survival, you live in a very rich country and you just do it to try fancy food. Think that people in Africa learnt not to kill gorillas, chimps etc. although they starve to death when the ones that can not give up the whaling are so rich and have no real motive to kill the whales! We who don't agree with whaling argue that whales are known for saving people from death, from sharks, they help the handicap to recover, they're brain-body size ratio is like ours, they're presence makes us feel happy and good and also they are like us, some form monogamous pairs, educate their kids and some even kiss each other like we do. So how can you not love them? We think that today they are not in danger, but tomorrow they might be, cause that happened with so many other animals (ex polar bears, species of sharks etc.), their meat is contaminated with mercury and the health authorities in Faeroe's warned the population, the hunting, no matter how modern, still ends up with a kill and so on. I just think that everybody should think before acting and have some empathy for nature as a whole, because in my opinion we are all animals, with humans only having more responsibilities as a dominant species and not only privileges! This is all i have to say and i won't write you back anymore! Peace out!
@TemporalNacho Ok, for the last time, i wrote in English about hunting, in general! Secondly, all the so called arguments that you people that support whaling are just your opinions, no proves whatsoever - trust me i looked for infos! The only arguments are: its a tradition and it tastes good! I think this sort of attitude is not fair in a world that try to evolves because its like saying I'm better than all animals because I was born a human, the "high school bully" attitude i call it. And this is because you are not hunting for survival, you live in a very rich country and you just do it to try fancy food. Think that people in Africa learnt not to kill gorillas, chimps etc. although they starve to death when the ones that can not give up the whaling are so rich and have no real motive to kill the whales! We who don't agree with whaling argue that whales are known for saving people from death, from sharks, they help the handicap to recover, they're brain-body size ratio is like ours, they're presence makes us feel happy and good and also they are like us, some form monogamous pairs, educate their kids and some even kiss each other like we do. So how can you not love them? We think that today they are not in danger, but tomorrow they might be, cause that happened with so many other animals (ex polar bears, species of sharks etc.), their meat is contaminated with mercury and the health authorities in Faeroe's warned the population, the hunting, no matter how modern, still ends up with a kill and so on. I just think that everybody should think before acting and have some empathy for nature as a whole, because in my opinion we are all animals, with humans only having more responsibilities as a dominant species and not only privileges! This is all i have to say and i won't write you back anymore! Peace out!
5:10pm Tue 14th Feb #8158240
lol "Denmark is a big shame."
First pic shows on that "article" shows mountains... Well we all know there is no such things at mountains on Denmark.
lol "Denmark is a big shame."
First pic shows on that "article" shows mountains... Well we all know there is no such things at mountains on Denmark.
9:20am Tue 14th Feb #8157013
@MaiaMadness
No kidding, whale meat is that good? Out of curiosity, does it taste like another sort of meat or is it a flavor all it's own?
I have no problem with whale hunting, so long as it's not killing the animals faster than they can reproduce. That's how I feel about all hunting, really.
@MaiaMadness
No kidding, whale meat is that good? Out of curiosity, does it taste like another sort of meat or is it a flavor all it's own?
I have no problem with whale hunting, so long as it's not killing the animals faster than they can reproduce. That's how I feel about all hunting, really.
6:51am Tue 14th Feb #8156539
@mickey
"There are people like the Eskimos who survive on hunting and i think is ok"
"i kinda agree with it or if you are in a survival situation were you have no choice"
The Faroese people survive (partially) on hunting the pilot whales. It is not sold, but distributed to local homes.
Studies show that the whale is probably not endangered, and even if it is, the Faroese whaling probably isn't a huge threat (due to the method by which they are hunted).
Before you say that eventually hunting will kill them off, keep in mind; animals reproduce, therefore the species continues. Whaling on the islands dates has been around since 1584, and there is still no evidence that they are endangered("I don't agree with hunting the endangered species"). I think the whales will be just fine.
"I guess,I'm pretty reasonable!"
@mickey
"There are people like the Eskimos who survive on hunting and i think is ok"
"i kinda agree with it or if you are in a survival situation were you have no choice"
The Faroese people survive (partially) on hunting the pilot whales. It is not sold, but distributed to local homes.
Studies show that the whale is probably not endangered, and even if it is, the Faroese whaling probably isn't a huge threat (due to the method by which they are hunted).
Before you say that eventually hunting will kill them off, keep in mind; animals reproduce, therefore the species continues. Whaling on the islands dates has been around since 1584, and there is still no evidence that they are endangered("I don't agree with hunting the endangered species"). I think the whales will be just fine.
"I guess,I'm pretty reasonable!"
3:07am Tue 14th Feb #8156186
Okay, so first of all, calling that thing an article is a stretch. It's a bunch of pictures with opinions in bad English attached to them.
Secondly, whale is darn tasty meat! It's excellent in stews, or can be cooked as steak, and there's a lot of good meat on a single whale. It's high in protein and low in fat, which is also why it's so dark in colour.
The few countries where whale hunting is still allowed have strict rules for which whales you can catch, and how many, and in most countries the quotae aren't even met most years. There's really no evidence that a whale is any more intelligent than, say, a pig. There is, however, of course the concern of whether these creatures are endangered. With the pilot whale there is too little data (and the pilot whale IS, in fact, classified as a dolphin, smaller in size than the killer whale). With the minke whale that is commonly hunted along the coast of Norway, there is no question, and the animal is in fact critically endangered.
As for hunting in general, I'd rather eat an animal that's been allowed to live freely and happily in its natural habitat than one that's been raised in a "meat factory". Deer, raindeer and moose are all great eating, as is rabbit and even bear. I only eat ecologically farmed free range eggs and try to buy eco meat as often as I can, though sadly it's very expensive. However, "free range" meat also tastes better. A pig that's been allowed to walk freely outside, eating grass, digging up truffles and being the omnivore it was meant to be, yields absolutely delicious meat.
Okay, so first of all, calling that thing an article is a stretch. It's a bunch of pictures with opinions in bad English attached to them.
Secondly, whale is darn tasty meat! It's excellent in stews, or can be cooked as steak, and there's a lot of good meat on a single whale. It's high in protein and low in fat, which is also why it's so dark in colour.
The few countries where whale hunting is still allowed have strict rules for which whales you can catch, and how many, and in most countries the quotae aren't even met most years. There's really no evidence that a whale is any more intelligent than, say, a pig. There is, however, of course the concern of whether these creatures are endangered. With the pilot whale there is too little data (and the pilot whale IS, in fact, classified as a dolphin, smaller in size than the killer whale). With the minke whale that is commonly hunted along the coast of Norway, there is no question, and the animal is in fact critically endangered.
As for hunting in general, I'd rather eat an animal that's been allowed to live freely and happily in its natural habitat than one that's been raised in a "meat factory". Deer, raindeer and moose are all great eating, as is rabbit and even bear. I only eat ecologically farmed free range eggs and try to buy eco meat as often as I can, though sadly it's very expensive. However, "free range" meat also tastes better. A pig that's been allowed to walk freely outside, eating grass, digging up truffles and being the omnivore it was meant to be, yields absolutely delicious meat.
1:29am Tue 14th Feb #8156148
@svennemean Hunting involves a lot of things. Of course if you have to get rid of pests that overwhelm you i kinda agree with it or if you are in a survival situation were you have no choice whatsoever. There are people like the Eskimos who survive on hunting and i think is ok, but i do not agree with hunting for fun (killing is not suppose to be fun unless you're mentally deranged), for the sake of some weird tradition were although you might have normal means of living you want to try some traditional fancy food (cause you know cannibalism was a tradition for many tribes, but in the end they gave up the tradition although they argued that human meat tasted the best, weird i know) and of course, I don't agree with hunting the endangered species. I guess,I'm pretty reasonable!
@svennemean Hunting involves a lot of things. Of course if you have to get rid of pests that overwhelm you i kinda agree with it or if you are in a survival situation were you have no choice whatsoever. There are people like the Eskimos who survive on hunting and i think is ok, but i do not agree with hunting for fun (killing is not suppose to be fun unless you're mentally deranged), for the sake of some weird tradition were although you might have normal means of living you want to try some traditional fancy food (cause you know cannibalism was a tradition for many tribes, but in the end they gave up the tradition although they argued that human meat tasted the best, weird i know) and of course, I don't agree with hunting the endangered species. I guess,I'm pretty reasonable!
6:37pm Mon 13th Feb #8155725
@mickey just a question. are you against all forms of hunting or just whale hunting?
@mickey just a question. are you against all forms of hunting or just whale hunting?
4:55pm Mon 13th Feb #8155423
I consider myself pretty open, and the entire "article" was just saturated with ignorance and stupidity.
But I have to admit, seeing the sea absolutely brilliant red with blood was pretty jarring. It was beautiful to look at, but kind of disturbing in its implications.
I consider myself pretty open, and the entire "article" was just saturated with ignorance and stupidity.
But I have to admit, seeing the sea absolutely brilliant red with blood was pretty jarring. It was beautiful to look at, but kind of disturbing in its implications.
5:44am Sun 12th Feb #8150385
@Fyngirl Ah, my original comment was a hypothetical idea that i think is the way to end all the arguments relating the hunting of different type of animals. About what you wrote in danish, you could have written another comment otherwise logically i thought it was directed to me. Thirdly, you probably didn't read my earlier comments cause i there gave an example of Iceland who uses whale watching as an alternative to hunting them, i can give many more but im bored right now. About maps, we learn in first grades the countries of the world, rivers etc. Trust me i won prizes for geography! I don't understand why you think i somehow hate Faeroe people or i think them evil, no, i just expressed my opinion related the problem of whale hunting in general. I disagree with it and i hope someday it will be resolved. Finally, I thought about whale disappearing taking into account the whole planet situation, the clime that changes, heavy metal pollution and adding the hunting to an already stressed population surely affects it in the end! You can write back billions of comments i will always condemn the whale hunting!
@Fyngirl Ah, my original comment was a hypothetical idea that i think is the way to end all the arguments relating the hunting of different type of animals. About what you wrote in danish, you could have written another comment otherwise logically i thought it was directed to me. Thirdly, you probably didn't read my earlier comments cause i there gave an example of Iceland who uses whale watching as an alternative to hunting them, i can give many more but im bored right now. About maps, we learn in first grades the countries of the world, rivers etc. Trust me i won prizes for geography! I don't understand why you think i somehow hate Faeroe people or i think them evil, no, i just expressed my opinion related the problem of whale hunting in general. I disagree with it and i hope someday it will be resolved. Finally, I thought about whale disappearing taking into account the whole planet situation, the clime that changes, heavy metal pollution and adding the hunting to an already stressed population surely affects it in the end! You can write back billions of comments i will always condemn the whale hunting!
5:22am Sun 12th Feb #8150348
@Danishandiknowit Dude, look I don't have anything against eating meat ok? My original idea was theoretical, i hypothetically said that just eating green stuff would end all these conflicts about animals beings hunted and stuff. The documentary staff was in relation with something else, somebody asked about that theory with surviving after a cathastrophy. I am against whale hunting and this is basically what i disagree with others who say its ok to hunt them but im not gonna become a member of 'Steve Irwin" and appear on Whale Wars. Its as simple as that!
@Danishandiknowit Dude, look I don't have anything against eating meat ok? My original idea was theoretical, i hypothetically said that just eating green stuff would end all these conflicts about animals beings hunted and stuff. The documentary staff was in relation with something else, somebody asked about that theory with surviving after a cathastrophy. I am against whale hunting and this is basically what i disagree with others who say its ok to hunt them but im not gonna become a member of 'Steve Irwin" and appear on Whale Wars. Its as simple as that!
6:18pm Sat 11th Feb #8149830
@mickey i just read the comments that you have been posting, and I just had to actually create an account and comment on this discussion. Lets first take the "tons of scientists who agree we should eat veggies from discovery channel"
well there is your problem, your information is as far as I can see mostly supported by a documentary, those are like any other television program colored by the editors point of view, what about the “tons of scientists” who think you should eat a diverse diet of both meat and veggies.
Secondly what people have been trying to get through to you all this time seems to be this shortened down: There are lots of reasons to eat meat, and there also a lot of reasons to be a vegan or whatever, it is a matter of personal choice, what a ton of scientists think is the right diet for their specific target group will not go for a general person since people living in different areas of the world who live in different cultures will need different diets, because they simply live different lives… I don’t have a fancy link for you but I assure you my info does not come from a silly documentary from TV...
And yes if an asteroid hit the earth and all “steaks” as you said would die… then yes we would be hit by malnutrition and other similar effects because the balance in our diets would inevitably be changed, and yes this does take some adaption and is not impossible to accomplish, but why should we need to make this adaption? It’s simple anthropology really, survival of the fittest, humans was collectors and hunters before they were farmers, and we are meant to eat meat simple as that….
@mickey i just read the comments that you have been posting, and I just had to actually create an account and comment on this discussion. Lets first take the "tons of scientists who agree we should eat veggies from discovery channel"
well there is your problem, your information is as far as I can see mostly supported by a documentary, those are like any other television program colored by the editors point of view, what about the “tons of scientists” who think you should eat a diverse diet of both meat and veggies.
Secondly what people have been trying to get through to you all this time seems to be this shortened down: There are lots of reasons to eat meat, and there also a lot of reasons to be a vegan or whatever, it is a matter of personal choice, what a ton of scientists think is the right diet for their specific target group will not go for a general person since people living in different areas of the world who live in different cultures will need different diets, because they simply live different lives… I don’t have a fancy link for you but I assure you my info does not come from a silly documentary from TV...
And yes if an asteroid hit the earth and all “steaks” as you said would die… then yes we would be hit by malnutrition and other similar effects because the balance in our diets would inevitably be changed, and yes this does take some adaption and is not impossible to accomplish, but why should we need to make this adaption? It’s simple anthropology really, survival of the fittest, humans was collectors and hunters before they were farmers, and we are meant to eat meat simple as that….
1:37am Sat 11th Feb #8147652
@mickey "I think we should all go on veggies. It would make the whales, pigs and chickens happy and we would have no more obese people )!" So what did you mean about this statement?
And about the danish message I wrote, it wasn't to you but to the Faeroe people, where I apologized if I had exagerated about their food supplies, but that I couldn't stand when people, who no knowledge about the Faeroe people and country whatsoever, would immediately go "OMG EVIL PEOPLE" just because they hunt their own food in a humane way instead of always going to the supermarket like the rest of us hypocrites.
You say that there is an alternative. Nothing from your previous statements suggest any, other than the usual BS about aeting healthy and eat more fruits and veggies. Do you even know where the Faeroe Island is on a map? Or how their environment is like? If you did you would know that it takes a day to travel there by boat. You say that the whales will eventually become extinct if the Faeroe people keep doing their hunting. How do you know? People have been hunting different kinds of animal for thousands of years and they have not gone extinct, take the moose and reindeer for example in the North. Santa still got his reindeer despite us horrible people
@mickey "I think we should all go on veggies. It would make the whales, pigs and chickens happy and we would have no more obese people )!" So what did you mean about this statement?
And about the danish message I wrote, it wasn't to you but to the Faeroe people, where I apologized if I had exagerated about their food supplies, but that I couldn't stand when people, who no knowledge about the Faeroe people and country whatsoever, would immediately go "OMG EVIL PEOPLE" just because they hunt their own food in a humane way instead of always going to the supermarket like the rest of us hypocrites.
You say that there is an alternative. Nothing from your previous statements suggest any, other than the usual BS about aeting healthy and eat more fruits and veggies. Do you even know where the Faeroe Island is on a map? Or how their environment is like? If you did you would know that it takes a day to travel there by boat. You say that the whales will eventually become extinct if the Faeroe people keep doing their hunting. How do you know? People have been hunting different kinds of animal for thousands of years and they have not gone extinct, take the moose and reindeer for example in the North. Santa still got his reindeer despite us horrible people
1:04am Sat 11th Feb #8147643
@TemporalNacho My friend, it was a documentary on Discovery Channel and it was about this situation only and tones of scientists agreed that some humans might survive, but they would be few and most likely in the countryside areas cause they are more protected and the animals that have always survived and therefore will survive, are the insects (mostly cockroaches), the rats (first mammal that survived the asteroid that killed the dinos was a rat like mammal) and maybe some birds of prey if they manage to hide in caves or something like that. And because there would be so few of them they would have all the resources for themselves only so they would grow big (rats the size of dogs and the insects well depends on their size). That was the theory!
@TemporalNacho My friend, it was a documentary on Discovery Channel and it was about this situation only and tones of scientists agreed that some humans might survive, but they would be few and most likely in the countryside areas cause they are more protected and the animals that have always survived and therefore will survive, are the insects (mostly cockroaches), the rats (first mammal that survived the asteroid that killed the dinos was a rat like mammal) and maybe some birds of prey if they manage to hide in caves or something like that. And because there would be so few of them they would have all the resources for themselves only so they would grow big (rats the size of dogs and the insects well depends on their size). That was the theory!
12:51am Sat 11th Feb #8147637
@Fyngirl [link] so they don't use boats ha? Secondly, you didn't get my idea at all: i don't say everybody to go vegan just eat responsibly, cause we have to protect as much as possible the animals so that your kids and theirs to have whales and other species of animals to admire. You said you get fish from the water, you import food so why not give up the whaling since the whole world gives you crap for that? Finally, what if i start writing shit in my native language? How smart is that? If you have something to say just say it in English!
@Fyngirl [link] so they don't use boats ha? Secondly, you didn't get my idea at all: i don't say everybody to go vegan just eat responsibly, cause we have to protect as much as possible the animals so that your kids and theirs to have whales and other species of animals to admire. You said you get fish from the water, you import food so why not give up the whaling since the whole world gives you crap for that? Finally, what if i start writing shit in my native language? How smart is that? If you have something to say just say it in English!
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[link]
Relevant link. This is honestly disgusting to me -- cruel and unnecessary. I also believe pigs and cows are past the threshold of consciousness beyond which ethical treatment is warranted, but this whale slaughter is clearly more brutal and clearly just wrong, no matter the economic need or "cultural tradition." Their emotional sophistication and cognitive ability is another indication of how thoroughly capable they are of suffering.