Eurovision 2022

It's funny, you know. Sure I was aware of the poll which found that Finns trust Swedes the most and vice versa, and yeah, we've 800 years of history together, and Swedes sent A LOT of equipment and volunteers to Finland during the Winter War.
Yet, when asked what they know about Finland, Swedes tend to stare into the distance, and mutter something about the cold (like Sweden's in the tropics), knives (thank the Slussen idiots for that), or that Finland's technologically, culturally, socially, and economically stuck in the 50s (thank Aki Kaurismäki's movies for that image). Finns say Swedes are pussies, naïve, tree-hugging hippies etc.

But now I know something for sure. Yes, there's the Kavli prawn cheese which I love, and Atria's lördagskorv which Swedes love... but we're a team. We stick together, and we've got each other's back.
Of all the neighbors in the world, ain't a goddamn better one than Sweden.
Or New Zealand.

@DarkMage7280
If I may contribute something as a non-participant: from the outside, it looks to me as if the Nordic states are like brothers in any normal family: you hang out together forever, now and then you fight, but when the going gets tough, you stand together.

@DerDings

Exactly. It's precisely like that. <3

@DerDings

Very true, except possibly with Denmark and Sweden where part of the dynamic for both of them seems to be "Hey, you can't threaten/trash talk him like that. That's my job!!" ;)

@stevep59 That's exactly what having siblings is like though

@Wuzzle2 True.

@DarkMage7280
Not to draw parallels, but 15 years ago I could say the same about Ukraine and Russia =(

'@molotovinpeikko' Strong disagree. Ukraine's national identity as anything but a slave-territory has traditionally been something Russia denies and disregards. It's actual ethno-national identity is quite interesting (and colorful) but does not lend itself toward empire-building.

It does lend itself to being hardcore as f*&% though.

@DarkMage7280 Sweden is especially a good neighbor considering who your OTHER neighbor is.

@Bottas_Heimfe Awww, now, Norwegians are super nice, too.

"No, I meant the other neighbor."

...But Estonians are good neighbors, too.

"No, I meant R--"

Oh, you mean Those We Do Not Speak Of.

@DarkMage7280

Technologically backwards? Have the Swedes never heard of Nokia?! Like, I get that the phone companies managed to crush Nokia in the US because it offered so many features that the providers wanted to charge for and they were so durable the companies couldn't make money selling you new crap every couple of years, but I thought Nokia would still be big in the Nordics.

Russia is sitting alone in the cold while Sweeden and Finland tells him the "bad news" is prieceless.

The extreme irony being that it was Russias leadership that pushed both Sweden and Finland into joining Nato. I know that at least the swedes are pretty upset over loosing 200 years of alliance freedom and neutrality, but all the threats and intrusions into swedish airspace made it more or less impossible to stay out of it.

Basically, Putins threats about us joining made us join.

'@Deviant' I hope it works out. Treaties are usually a good thing.

Wouldn't mind a tripartite treaty where the "neutral" countries are guaranteed protection from either side by the other side (i.e. "If Russia attacks you NATO protects, if NATO attacks you Russia also promises to protect"). This war might not have happened if Ukraine had been given more "solid" guarantees against aggression.

Russia alone. I can say only one thing, Putin is red flag person, russian people sometimes normal, sometimes bad

@Koska Like everywhere. It's just a shame that bad people seem to have a lower density than good and normal people, so it's much easier for them to float to the top.

@Kemm Well, it's more that they are supported by all the densest people at the bottom, really.

@OneTruePing Nope, it's more that somebody CAN murder an opponent to get to the top, and somebody can't. Those that cannot make for pretty decent governors. Those that can just eliminate every opponent, to be sure. Ever heard of Nemtsov? Right. Next. To Kremlin.

@Ninian Russian and western ideas of democracy are historically different. Marx and Lenin had a very different version where you vote once and then everyone has to obey (democratic centralism) which was originally necessary to organize the communist revolution between a bunch of separate in-fighting communist cells and factions. This means the elected leaders are judged absolutely right because you voted for them, and disagreement after the vote is sabotage. You can only say the voted action was wrong only after it is completed - which is why the Soviet Union had five year plans to limit the scope of any ruling. This mechanism allows keeping a dictatorship by forcing people to vote certain ways, and by faking votes, because the only point where the peoples' opinion matters at all is at the voting booth, at the end of a gun.

The west is a more continuous process with criticism and dissidence allowed at every point. Governments can be thrown over by a vote of non-confidence. Russia is still missing this; you do not understand the point of democracy.

@Eikka Of course we don't, not like we had Kronstadt sailors rebel against Lenin, not like we had entire Civil War because of disagreements, not like we had massive protests in 1991 and 1993, not like we had massive protests in 2012 and 2018. Not like we *do* criticize government actively, after all. It's all just fifth column propaganda, in fact even I am a fifth column propaganda, I do not exist, and never have attended over a dozen protests since 2018, never volunteered to Navalniy's electoral campaign before it was shut down, never trespassed on government property to take discriminating photos of illegal trash dump at my city, we never doubt our government, never criticise it, never distrust it past the election day, we absolutely do not understand that to make a corrupted piece of shit work you need to constantly bash him with a club because otherwise he'll take a seat at your neck and strangle you to death while simultaneously robbing away your money and raping your daughter just for the kick of it.

@Ninian
Of course do not misunderstand me. Russia as a country does not understand democracy. Despite efforts, you do not have it. If you have 150 million people and 50 million still don't get it, you do not have it. This is a problem that is only solved by time, because you cannot force people to think differently.

In western multi-faction democracies, 20% is enough to win elections sometimes. It's even possible to form a government with minority support (<50%) because the rest of the parties do not agree to join in opposition. Nobody likes this happening, but they can trust it because they can challenge it. If the people did not believe in the values of democracy and there were no mechanisms to challenge the elected state, we would have Putin as well.

Unpopular opinion: NATO should have been deleted in 1992 because the fall of communist tyranny ended its reason to exist. As far as I'm concerned the role of helping integrate the Eastern bloc into the democratic realm should have been spearheaded by the Western Europeans, not the US...

That being said, how the hell did you not see this coming Putin -- ofc the Finns and Swedes were gonna see you go into Ukraine and say "yeah we'll go ahead and join an alliance to protect ourselves against *that*"

@txag70

> NATO should have been deleted in 1992 because the fall of communist tyranny ended its reason to exist

Why though? It's not like it's been rendered obsolete immediately. The world wasn't too peaceful back in 1990s, so why not keep it for a while?

> how the hell did you not see this coming Putin…

You misjudge his intentions, IMO. Putin uses NATO as a propaganda prop to bang about "external threat". He essentially claims that Ukraine is sorta part of "Greater Russia" or whatever, hence invasion justification. It's hard to say the same about Finland and Sweden, and attacking them is way too mad even for him, so their plea to join NATO is spun as a part of "Evil West hates us" trope.

As an example: Russian news avoid saying "country X joined NATO", instead it's "NATO expands again, incorporating X". As if it's a unilateral decision. At the same time Crimea "joined in with Russia", of course =)

@molotovinpeikko Putin doesn't want all of Ukraine. He just wants the parts with Russian majorities. And regardless of what Putin says about NATO, nothing can deny that NATO is a corrupt organization. Russia has even asked to join 3 times and was rejected each time because NATO wants to keep Russia as its enemy.

@Loki_Isaxon
> Putin doesn't want all of Ukraine. He just wants the parts with Russian majorities

I don't have any reliable information to support either of these statements, and I doubt you have =)

> nothing can deny that NATO is a corrupt organization

Could be; most organizations are, I can hardly judge from the outside =)

> Russia has even asked to join 3 times

Is that official? I heard both parties "floating" the idea, but there hadn't been anything serious/official.

@molotovinpeikko It's not quite as easy as just "hey I want to join" to get into NATO

It requires things like arms compatibility and military planning cohesiveness. IIRC France left NATO in the 50s and rejoined it later on for something related to this. Russia did not have serious intentions to merge capabilities each time they "asked".

@txag70
> It's not quite as easy as just "hey I want to join" to get into NATO

I imagine so. Did you mean to reply to Loki? =)

@molotovinpeikko I think I did. I gotta be honest, I don't care for the way comments on this website work...

But yeah, I think we let the Russians, and much of Eastern Europe too, by not offering to them what we did to Western Europe in 1945. Communism was such a disaster that y'all absolutely needed a Marshall plan of sorts -- not just to help transition (SLOWLY! "shock therapy" was a bad idea) out of a failed economic system, but to teach the Russian middle class how to do business. One could claim that's wasteful spending, but imagine a Russia that went the way of Finland or Estonia after 1990... one that would have helped against the fight on radical Islamic terrorism... one that would have perhaps exported more of its nuclear technology to help decarbonize the world... I think Gorbachev perhaps would have had a better shot at such a future than that lowlife Yeltsin. It's a pity.

A missed opportunity to be sure.

'@molotovinpeikko' Signs point to no: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93NATO_relations#Suggestions_of_Russia_joining_NATO

Key phrase: "No serious discussions were ever held."

And "NATO is corrupt" only works if you're being extremely vague with what "corrupt" means. NATO plays the game of states, same as everyone else; but frankly it plays it cleaner than most of its opposition or it's individual member states. It can be harder to sell a war of exploitation to the whole group than to a few profiteering members. America can sell guns and bombing brown people on Tuesday but recent developments in Germany make it political poison until Thursday, by the time Thursday rolls around German headlines have a "scary muslim pedophile" criminal case but America's backing off from Mosque-burning and a KBR executive going on trial for war profiteering.

I mean it's not like Ukraine is a flower of perfect peace. They have their ups and downs and terrible ethnic bigots too; but Ukraine is not engaging in a genocidal invasion at the moment so they are the party to side with. Life isn't some cartoon with perfect good guys and irredeemable bad guys, it is Life. But sometimes the good or bad guy of a particular situation is quite simple indeed.

@Loki_Isaxon

... Dude... Russia wasn't rejected each time because NATO wants to keep Russia as it's enemy, it was rejected because they refuse to meet the requirements of joining NATO.

Among those requirements are to have the general populace have a strong say in their government and to have general policies against committing ethnic cleansing.

@LilithRose Yeah sure. You clearly have been indoctrinated by western propaganda.

@LilithRose But just so it's clear. I'm not pro-Russia, I'm just anti-NATO.

'@Loki'_Isaxon Sure thing, tankie.

Meanwhile, in reality, everything you said was ridiculous.

@Loki_Isaxon Thanks to Putin that corrupt gargantuan now has a fresh excuse to go on living and to even expand. Oh joy, war coming to streets next to me this summer. Tickets for premiere already sold out.

@Loki_Isaxon

Three points to consider.
a) He has denied Ukraine's right to exist which doesn't match your suggestion. Definitely a quick strike on Kiyv as occurred at the start of the war doesn't either.
b) His definition of Russian is often anyone who can speak Russia which because it was pretty much mandatory across much of the USSR includes the majority of Ukrainians. That they don't want to either 'be' Russian or be ruled by a murderous idiot doesn't matter to him.
c) He has repeatedly said that the greatest disaster of the latter 20thC was the collapse of the USSR. Go figure.

'@stevep59' Also they don't (well, DIDN'T) have a majority in the Donbass region. What they DO have is oil and natural gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donbas#Demographics_and_politics

As usual, it's about stealing something.

Of course they've also been kidnapping people again, just like the filtration camps of the Chechen war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_filtration_camps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filtration_camp_system_in_Chechnya

@Loki_Isaxon Putin invaded Kiev. Kiev is NOT an area with a Russian majority.

He wanted to install a puppet over Zelensky in Kiev -- one of his original demands was to force Zelensky out of power.

@txag70 I get the impression that the Russians were half expecting Ukrainians to accept them as liberators.

When they didn't, Russia switched from Plan "Anschluss with Austria" to Plan "Slice off the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia".

As I see it, there's only two possible outcomes of this war:

1) Russia wins and chops off the southern and eastern pro-Russian parts of Ukraine;
2) Russia loses, Ukraine remains intact, but has to expel all its pro-Russians the same way Czechoslovakia expelled its Germans after WW2.

The thing is, Ukraine would be far better off if it kept its Black Sea coastline. Unfortunately, it's also the part of the country mainly inhabited by ethnic Russians.

@txag70 He invaded Kiev to break the Ukrainian morale in hopes of forcing them to relinquish Donbas. Not to annex Kiev.

@Loki_Isaxon Removing Zelensky from power has also been from day 1 one of his goals too. This would imply installing a puppet government in Kiev.

@molotovinpeikko The point of NATO was to be an allied bulwark against invasion from a hostile communist force. When communism croaked in 1989-92, that mission was no longer necessary (although in theory, I suppose working to integrate Russia in and then use it against a Chinese communist bulwark would be doable...)

I'm somewhat isolationist in terms of foreign policy -- in my opinion, what happens to Ukraine is both tragic and not the USA's problem. The european countries can fight that fight if they wish to. I think Putin is a brutal and bloody old-fashioned style tyrant, but he does not represent a threat to US security outside of the nuclear deterrent, which is also a situation we screwed up in the 90s and 2000s (I work in the US nuclear industry). Putin does represent a threat to US allies that have largely shirked their defense responsibilities for decades (cough *GERMANY* cough) while expecting Uncle Sam to be the security guarantor. In my opinion this is a European conflict and not one the US need get involved in. That being said, it's turned out rather nicely to the extent Ukraine's success in repelling the Russians will make Beijing think twice about fucking around with Taiwan.

@txag70 I'd mostly agree, the US wouldn't be needed for the European Union and or European NATO members, since as far as conventional military goes Russia wouldn't stand a chance anyway, comparatively low defense spending doesn't really matter much in this case since it's still more than enough for Russia. As far as the Ukraine goes, It's technically nobodies responsibility since there are no alliances to bind anybody, and how far helping them out is a necessity for humanitarian or strategic reasons is a decision the Americans have to make for themselves, it's certainly non of my business, I'm more interested in what my own country plans to do in that regard.

@nroejb I believe it is time for your country to accept its place as an economic and political bulwark in the European continent. I am aware of the historical reasons Germany has been hesitant to do this, but the past 75 years have proven y'all are capable of overcoming a dark past to become a prosperous society that values human rights of all people. What's more, y'all even managed to (given the circumstances) integrate well after the fall of the Iron Curtain.

Europe needs a Germany willing to fight for freedom and human rights. To be frank, since 1945 y'all have a better record of that than we in the US do. The time for the US to be the guarantor for European security should have ended decades ago.

Now if only y'all would stop shutting down your nuclear plants... ;)

@txag70
> The point of NATO was to be an allied bulwark against invasion from a hostile communist force

My point is that when the alliance is already there, disbanding it still requires some work, so you might as well keep it for a while to make sure it's not useful anymore.

> what happens to Ukraine is both tragic and not the USA's problem

That's a point I can understand. Still, as a Russian, I appreciate that your government disagrees. For once, USA militarism comes in useful =)

> it's turned out rather nicely to the extent Ukraine's success in repelling the Russians will make Beijing think twice about fucking around with Taiwan

I would imagine that for a US isolationist you wouldn't care too much? =p

I'm not too much of an expert on the subject, but from what I know, US is too friendly with China ATM now to involve itself in that potential conflict. At least, not to the extent of Ukraine. Also, one thing that I took from "our" war is that our army is still shit =)
It might, of course, be mostly the issue of morale (there's A LOT of reports by Russian soldiers), but still I don't believe Taiwan stands any chance. But then again, I was *so* wrong about Ukraine back in February =D

@molotovinpeikko During the 1930s the America First groups were very dismissive of Nazi Germany's expansionism and that the US should stay out of Europe, but were oddly very vocal about Japan expansionism. I guess it is just a strange coincidence but something doesn't seem quite white.

@Bobenstein My guess is that Japanese expansionism was more of a threat to American interests in the Pacific. Iirc at the time we had control over the Phillipines as an example.

@molotovinpeikko Disbanding NATO in 1992 would indeed have taken some work -- but giving it a new mission after communist tyranny fell wasn't work-free either. Hindsight, of course, is 20-20.

I care about Taiwan because the US has rather foolishly allowed its semi-conductor industry to offshore most of its production... almost all of which has moved to Taiwan. My concerns are economic -- if China invaded Taiwan and semi-conductor exports from Taiwan were to therefore fall, the US tech industry would get hurt immensely, and that's bad for our economy, which very much *is* something I care strongly about. China is not stupid enough to fight Taiwan on the basis that they'd lose their #1 export destination and therefore cripple the strong economy they've built which is the bedrock on the legitimacy Xi and the CCP has -- Beijing can justify its political repressiveness because the Chinese middle class has prospered greatly since Chairman Mao went straight to the pit of hell. Invading Taiwan would cause instability in the People's Republic, and as such the Chinese may sabre-rattle but will not risk doing anything. Ukraine's success so far of course has only given them more reason to think very, very thoroughly about any military moves against Taiwan.

Ukraine does not present the same economic threat to the US as Taiwan does if one gets invaded. It's a much more grave for Western Europe, which is why I feel they ought to lead and the US, if anything, should follow and stay quiet and in the background.

'@txag70' "the role of helping integrate the Eastern bloc into the democratic realm should have been spearheaded by the Western Europeans, not the US..."

It was. The thing is, no matter what western european nations do and no matter how much agency they exert, they'll always be cast as "American Puppet-states" by the propaganda.

America did plenty too, there was so much money to be stolen at the time, but proximity alone meant Western Europe had greater influence.

> The thing is, no matter what western european nations do and no matter how much agency they exert, they'll always be cast as "American Puppet-states" by the propaganda

Can confirm.

@molotovinpeikko But why give the Russians the propaganda to work with??

It's just as dumb as how Jim Crow was something the Communists in the USSR often would point to as a way to dismiss criticism of the USSR. It was a total deflection from the problems within -- but why as Americans would we want to give such detractors easy propaganda to use against us??

This is the same thing as many of the Cold War dictatorships we propped up too. Why back the scumbags just because they were anti-soviet? Communism is a failed economic system and a failed ideology. Because we did that, it's easier to sell the concept that Western European countries are mere US puppets.

@txag70 Thank God NATO exists, it's the only reason I'm feeling relatively safe in my country right now.

@Phea Well, I'm glad it helped you Poles out -- you guys are one of the few Europeans that actually regularly meets defense spending contract requirements.

I think most people are well aware that something like a 'liberal Russia' exists, unfortunately it doesn't exist in Russia :-)

@minando the problem is any Russian who stands up to Putin and protests the war is thrown into prison, they aren't even allowed to call it a "war" or "invasion" it's honestly very sad

@minando Well aware. Three of my ex wives among them. Ehm, yes. I had kind of a fixation. Now with an Ukrainian.

@EduardoSilva
> Now with an Ukrainian.

Easing out of it gently, are we? =)

@minando Don't hold your breath for the Mediterranean, either ... ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanov_Empire_(micronation)

I like Ukraine's pants, very.... Yellow

This is the only place that reminds me Eurovision exists... Also how the Shit did the UK get second? Must've been some good... "Favours"

@LuxVertas It was quite a good song. I feel bad for him honestly because I can imagine it's been a bit frustrating for him. If I were in his shoes I wouldn't want to complain, because obviously the public showing their support for Ukraine is very important, but it must suck to lose out on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity because of a humanitarian crisis you had nothing to do with.

@mrfiddles eh, better than the bugger all we get!

@LuxVertas One might say it isn't...coming home....to the UK next year?

Only Turkey is not amused.

@minando Turkey was too busy sucking Putins dick to have time for amusement.

Really, Finland and Sweden are 'terrorist countries'? The only terrorist I see in NATO actually has his headquarters in Ankara...

@ImportViking
> Turkey was too busy sucking Putins dick
Nah, that bitch Erdoghan tries to milk everybody. They have even shot down Russian bomber in Syria back in 2015. THis is not how dicks are sucked, at least in my experience =)

'@molotovinpeikko' Sure it is. You know, you have that crazy bi-polar gold-digging whore who THINKS he's a lot cuter and sexier than he actually is. Can't decide if he's a top or a bottom, constantly shifting back and forth between begging for it hard or slapping and yanking while calling you names; and CONSTANTLY cheating on you but also constantly accusing you of cheating? That kind of hot mess?

That's Erdogan.

@boring7
This isn't the kind of person I'm willing to trust to suck my dick, but I get your point =)

'@molotovinpeikko' Wise.

@boring7
> Can't decide if he's a top or a bottom

Can NOT confirm.
https://satwcomic.com/too-top-to-be-gay

@minando Turkey hates the current version of Eurovision too, it all fits.

When all this is finally done, I do hope that most people are able to distinguish between Russia and Putin. Ukraine and Russia have a long friendly history, even if Putin has screwed them just recently

@sshipway "long" "friendly"... those are two words with quite the caveats.

Russia, and the Soviet Union, and then Russia again, have been screwing Ukraine for a long time.

The main reason there are russian minorities in the region at all is due to the Soviets forcibly deporting Ukrainians and injecting Russians to get better control of the area. Fuck! Until Stalin, there were more ethnic GREEKS in Ukraine than Russians.

After Butja, I sincerly doubt many Russian soldiers will be getting home from this war. They will be lucky if they wont be seeing retaliatory massacres in Russia for decades to come.

@Lidonious Oh thanks for reminding of "justified" massacres to come. But of course we'll have to get all sappy and compassionate for these fucks, "oh boo-hoo, Serj and Den had went to Ukraine to do a little raping and pillaging and got a boo-boo on their hides, let's all shed some tears and give them a crate of cookies and barrel of homemade berry jam!"

If not for government protection - believe me, Ukrainians would've been far from first in lane to bash sense and regret into these assholes. With all our peacefulness - and after decade of protests none of which resulted even in a single policeman tramped to death, I *can* say that we're *that* peaceful - so, with all the peacefulness one doesn't need to mruder somebody to make shem hurt and cry in regret for the decisions they made in life.

@Ninian I aint calling it justified. But alot of people have lost family members. And not all of them will be able to forgive and forget. And it aint unlikely that some of those will take out their anger and frustration on anyone.

Russias massacres in Chechnya led to decades of terrorist attacks in Russia, there are still Kyrgyzstani attacks being carried out...

Violence begets violence is all. Which is basically why amred diplomacy is always a very costly and inefficient way to influence the world.

@Lidonious `And not all of them will be able to forgive and forget.` - it's called "and some of them will be and remain mentally broken in need of medical aid". Sociopathy is a diagnosis - and dangerous one for society, take on that word of somebody living with a government full of sociopath incapable of human empathy. Meanwhile if any of those freshly made sociopath will try to go on their own rape and pillage spree - they'll be belonging in a same mental cage as the ones that've hurt them. Violence begets a need to lock up and properly *heal* the culprits.

Speaking of mental institutions, now that's another swamp deserving to be isolated from humanity until - if - they get enough sense to realise what these fucking goblins turned their branch of medicine into in my country.

And just to repeat, these people need not revenge, they need a spoonful of sedatives and to be blocked from wielding any gun. Sociopath make near-perfect soldiers, obedient and efficient. But they make shitty humans. Don't believe me? Ask dead father of three that spent last days of his life in coma after ex-soldier stomped on his head for couple minutes because sociopathic drunken swine. Happened a block away from my home, few years ago. So if you actually care? - Do world a favor and #helpukraine with some mental drugs for those "righteous avengers" coming for our side of border.

'@sshipway' Holodomor.

@boring7 ...was not an isolated incident but part of a large, Union-wide, famine, which most strongly struck in Kazakhstan, but aside of that have caused people straving in Belarus, north Caucasus, Centra-Chernozem oblast (modern Voronej and Kursk oblasts), as well as several others, and if we speak of city dweller starvation - even in Moscow itself some people at the time had been resorting to cannibalism because of scarse food. But of course, let's go back to the party line of Yuschenko's government where rest of event is erased from history and instead things like "birth deficit" are counted to a number of actual deaths, to make it appear as if already horrid thing was even hirrider, because there's no such thing as too low numbers when we speak of political PR.

'@Ninian' Sure, keep telling yourself that.

It's funny, here in the west the pro-capitalists try to frame it as a failure of central planning and an inevitable result of communism but if you look at the facts it becomes clear that Stalin wanted a lot of Ukrainians to starve to death because he didn't like them and wanted to "russify" the area to get it under better control.

@boring7
So how do you explain major famine across Russia and Kazakstan in the same years? For all his faults, I don't see any real evidence of Stalin simply "disliking" certain peoples for the sake of it. He's Georgian himself, why would he care? From what I know, his logic was along the lines of "conflict with Poland => prosecute Polish Just In Case™".
I'm open to discussion, of course, I have zero emotional investment in whether Stalin was "just" a sociopath or a nationalist one =)

P.S. There still is Joseph Stalin State Museum in hometown in Georgia(!)

'@molotovinpeikko' Mostly the stealing of food.

@boring7 Are russians, kazakhs, georgians and rest not human enough? Why should *their* deaths be forgotten and neglected? They have died in the same exact famine.

'@Ninian' They weren't being purposefully starved, their food stolen just to ensure they died.

@sshipway If you fully ignore how Russia tried genocide on Ukraine three times already -killing millions in the process- in the last century (look up the word Holodomor, for example) and how Ukraine suffered largely under Soviet rule, if we forget the Crimea aggression from Russia, if you forget how Russia has been completely destabilizing its former Soviet 'colonies' in a lame attempt to build the Soviet Union back, if we ignore that Russia is led by a warmongering manipulating despot of a lunatic then yes, we can say that Russia is a great neighbor in the region and a fantastic trustworthy partner for others.