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Mixed Feelings


Mixed Feelings

Some different relationships between the Scandinavian countries. I tried to pick three that each would have a different country in centrum.

The first is how things goes whenever talks of a united Scandinavia comes up. Sweden and Norway starts fighting, while Denmark cries in the middle.

The second is about how Swedes and Danes seem to be fighting over who the Norwegians like best.

And the last is the result of history because the last wars to be fought within Scandinavia was Denmark vs. Sweden and Norway vs. Sweden. Sweden won both and thus became very unpopular, which can still be felt.

10th November 2010

18 days ago #9224129        

@Tzenker I wonder if it tastes different then. I mean some times it does and sometimes it doesnt.

what does spalling mean?

hay if the finns didnt turn their vickers-6-ton tanks into 75mm SPGs like the germand did, then what did they use them for? and y didnt they? do u know?

18 days ago #9224020        

@MarcusZMonkey: Viina is just what they call that type of alcohol. A different word than vodka, but more or less the same thing.
Finlandia is that same alcohol, except without the added sugar. It's made by the same company, but labelled and marketed in a different manner.

Strife just means battle, give or take.

The STRV-122 is a variety of the Leopard 2. There are several versions of it. There is nothing particularly special about the Swedish version. Far from as creative as the STRV-103.

IEDs are makeshift explosives. Often mines. HESH is a shell that smears a chunk of plastique on the enemy tank, which then explodes an instant later, creating a shockwave and resulting spalling. A great weapon circa 1940-1970, but nowhere near as good anymore. It remains fairly effective against fortifications.

19 days ago #9223744        

@Tzenker is it same as koskon, or is it different then? Kosken Viina looks like regular koskon to me.
but FINALLY! now I know that u can get koskon in UK. it was there all along xD but im having trouble finding strawberry flavour. I got to widen my shoppng search a bit, maybe. I havent seen nordic berries either, but i gont get to go out much cos i live in the middle of nowhere and the car is gone most of the time. hopefully that will change when i move house.

i dunnow what strife wagon means. does it mean (running side-ways)?
damn it. i suck at my own damn language here.
are there any differences between the laopard 2 and the STRV 122? I mean I can look it up myself, but ist often hard to track down little details such as this.

LOL! well how do they even hit the underside anyway? I mean apart from the explosion of course (if the warhead hits the ground under it). Im guessing HESHs and IEDs are high explosive right? im more experienced with research of WW2 stuff.

Im guessing if the contraban was found, theh the army would use them against tanks.

hay I thought people in hose days koined the army cos the other jobs were low pay shit. or at least in the UK. but im not too sure. maybe im thinking of WW1, when people were eager to fight.

19 days ago #9223556        

@MarcusZMonkey: Finlandia is meant for export, rather than domestic consumption. If you want to sell to foreigners, you label your product according to their desires, national pride be damned. For reference, Finlandia is basically Koskenkorva Viina without sugar.

STRV-103 is the Swedish tank that features an autoloader. STRV is an abbreviation for Stridsvagn, which (directly translated) means "strife wagon." The 103 was replaced by the 122, which is pretty much just the Leopard 2.

As for details on the armor of the Leclerc and CHOBHAM, I'd look up the technical details. CHOBHAM is superior against HEAT weapons, while the LeClerc is less specialized. For good or ill.
As for what you need to "take out" a Challenger 2, it really depends on your definition. While the tank has an excellent track record, it has been penetrated by significantly less than Hellfires. HESH and IEDs, usually when hitting the underside. It has since been upgraded, but I expect it remains far from invulnerable. A lot of things can go wrong in war.

As for the vodka, I didn't mean to say that the army performed illegal distillation. What I meant was: Civilians frequently performed illegal distillation, and I would be very surprised if none of the abruptly mobilized soldiers carried some contraband.

20 days ago #9223336        

@Tzenker @Tzenker i dunnow what strife-wagon means.

I dunnow what doctrine means either. i suck at my own freakin language lol

what armour does the lclerc have then?

oh,a nd whats CHOBHAM made from? Im guessing it deffinatly has more than 1 layer to it, and is like a more bendable form of carbon-fibre, or kevelar. or else it would either shatter, or be penotrated by shaped charges of things like RPGs or Javalins. something really resistant to high tempritures, and impact, as its kind of flexable, and absorbs the impacts of warheads. at least thats what i hear about it. I also hear that the only thing that can take out a challanger 2 is a hellfire missile.

I already foregotten what to call the finnish stuff. and its funny u should say that, because last time i looked on a Finlandia bottle, it said VODKA xD I wonder if finland knowes about this.

btw im now confused about the vodka. u said it was legal in the army, but not for public consumtion. now your saying the army was making the stuff illegally?

and BTW, is the STRV-103 the swedish autoloaded spg u were on about?

21 days ago #9222533        

@MarcusZMonkey: STRV is short for Stridsvagn. Strife-wagon.

I meant that the AMX Leclerc is more flexible than the STRV. Not that it's more flexible than the Abrams or Challenger. It remains a nice tank, with 20 official types of ammunition available, of which 6 can be loaded into the tank at once. That's pretty good for an auto-loader.
Its armor is also less specialized than the CHOBHAM of the Abrams and Challenger, as CHOBHAM performs best against shaped charges.
That said, the tank itself may be no more flexible. It depends on the skill of the operators, the talent of the leaders, and above all doctrine and type of engagement.

Illegal distillation was widespread in Finland.
Commercial alcohol was not strong enough to act as practical incendiary devices.
If referring to Finnish produced alcohol, never call it vodka. They will not appreciate it.

22 days ago #9222169        

@Tzenker now that u mention it, i think maybe the swedish tank was that one from that top 10 best ever tanks programme, because I could have sworn that it said that the tanks wasn't the number 1 top 10 tank because of its lack of turret. i could have also sworn that it was the one with an auto-loader system. still though, maybe the autoloader tank im thinking of was the AMX Leclerc.

anyway, whats this swedish tank called? is it the STRV-103 that i was discribing earlier? i couldnt remember the name of the tank back then, but that was the SPG I was talking about.

so, appart from the auto fire, how is the Leclerc more flexible? has it got better armour than the abrams, but still more manoeuvrable than the Challenger?

so so whats all this about illegal distillation? was that all the strong vodka avalible to the public or what?

I dont know what comment the last paragraph is refering to. I cant remember asking about troops drinking the stuff.

22 days ago #9221455        

@MarcusZMonkey: I think we have a bit of a failure to communicate. Pardon. Let me know if I should simplify my english.

The Swedes made a turretless tank, which packed a potent autoloader. It excelled as a defensive weapon, due to its fast reload, accuracy, and low profile. It did not perform as well as an offensive weapon. That worked well with the Swedish strategy. The idea was to slow down or even stop invaders, with less focus on taking the fight to them.

The AMX Leclerc is meant to be more flexible.

I have two associates. One is a German chap that would drive a Leopard 2. The other is a US fellow, that would drive an Abrams.
No army operates both tanks. If Greece does end up buying Abrams tanks, they will be the first.

Strong vodka was not illegal in Finland, but was not offered for domestic consumption by the official sources, as far as memory serves. Some was exported.
That leaves illegal distillation. You tend to see that in countries where the state controls distribution and/or production of alcohol. Even primitive stills can produce strong alcohol, which could burn better than the alcohol they could buy in a store.

It isn't unlikely that it happened to some degree. Imagine being called to fight for your country. It's a particularly cold winter, but even though you have good clothes, you figure you need a little extra. You grab a bottle or two of the illegal alcohol you had stashed away, before going to war. Although you had planned to drink it, you end up creating a makeshift incendiary device with it instead.

24 days ago #9220698        

@Tzenker SWEEEEET!!! maybe thats the tank i was wondering about all these years, cos I saw this thing about the top 10 tanks on discovery channel once and saw this thing about a big autoloaded gun, but I forgot what tank it was. I was thinking it would probably be a swedish one like that light SPG based on the 38-T chassies that could turn around as fast as a turret, but still never saw overseas customers.

so what was all that u were saying about the vodka? I mean it just sounded so self-contradictory that u were saying that the strong vodka was illegal in finland, but y wast good vodka?.
If it was illegal then where did it even come from???

and what army was that german guy in if he works on leopard tanks and abrams tanks? I mean what army has both?
please tell me. I wanna know.

27 days ago #9218922        

@MarcusZMonkey High speed (same as Abrams) and power to weight (same -- almost twice that of the Challenger 2), and some interesting armor. Still, let's face it. I'm referring to the autoloader. The tank was designed around that idea, and offers a max firing rate of 12 rounds per minute.

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