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Party Crasher





 

Party Crasher



Oh how often I have been asked by Estonians, “Where is Estonia? We’re a Nordic country too!”

Problem is, the other Nordics doesn’t think so. :XD:

I asked around what the stereotypes for the Baltic countries were, and the overall answer was, “Very depressed people who wear grey and live in grey houses”

Estonia have a good relationship with Finland, which is why he doesn’t hide, but he doesn’t consider her a Nordic either which is why he doesn’t let her in. The Finland’ish hat is because Estonians are seen as being very much like Finns by the other Baltics.

3rd August 2010
 


805 Comments:
 
Vinni

23 M
2 days ago #9205699        

I don't think most Swedes or other Scandinavians think of Estonia as a Nordic country, for several reasons. Braffolk said that Estonia should belong to the same group as Finland. That's an interesting statement, and I think it makes some sense. The languages are closely related, but that won't bring Estonia closer to the rest of the Nordic countries. I think even Finland is sometimes regarded as the black sheep because of their CRAZY language. And the other Nordic countries have a common history that goes waaaay back to the Viking era, and Finland is not part of that common history! Neither is Estonia. Finland was actually regarded more of a Baltic country than a Nordic country 100 years ago, maybe because they had been occupied by Russia. Somehow Finland is still regarded as a Nordic country today. Probably because the close bonds Finland had and still has with Sweden. These bonds go at least... 700 years back? Then of course, there's the Swedish speaking minority in Finland and the fact that Swedish is an official language in Finland (even if its position is threatened by Finnish nationalists that clearly know nothing about their own history) and because Finnish politics are very much like Scandinavian politics. We are all strong welfare states with great social equality (at least we used to be...) and we are very progressive in topics such as feminism and gay rights. Because of these reasons, I think Finland quite easy made the transformation to a Nordic country.

So yes, Estonian and Finnish are closely related, but the Nordic identity is still very much built on Scandiavian culture - and Scandinavian languages (despite the fact that the younger generation of Danes seems to be born with some sort of speech defect). Estonia was part of Sweden for a time and there was a cultural exchange between our countries. That might help Estonia with the Nordic identity. But it still can't be compared with the relation Finland and Sweden have. We were the same for hundreds of years. Finland was just as Swedish as any other province in the kingdom (not occupied territory as some Finnish nationalists wrongly believe), even more Swedish than some! And besides, Finland was on "the right side" of the Iron Curtain during the Cold War, because they managed to gain independence! Estonia, on the other hand, did not. Because of that Estonia got stuck with Russia, communism, poor economy... and is still considered by some as "Eastern Europe". This historical accident really makes it hard for Estonia to be seen as a Nordic country, especially with that flag of yours! But I still think of Estonia as more Nordic than Latvia and Lithuania. Maybe if Finland and Estonia strengthen their bonds, they will be seen as brothers, and that will make it easier for Estonia to be seen as a Nordic country. But then, of course, Estonia's old bonds with Russia, the bad economy and the less progressive politics... will make that hard. I really like this comic because it sums up the current situation really well!



1 month ago #9172344        

* forever alone with the losers *



2 months ago #9162156        

Estonia should be welcome at a sing-a-long, though. They had a "Singing Revolution" against the Soviets. Why, next thing you know, America won't be welcome at a shoot-out!



2 months ago #9161252        

Latvia and Lithuania can show their willingness to Baltic cooperation and their defensive will by raising the defense budget to 4% of GDP - that is the level Russia is spending on military. Estonia should do the same. Spending any less would be a defeatist attitude.

Also, Latvia and Lithuania should reintroduce mandatory consciption service.



2 months ago #9160203        

@LatvianAmerican

"United Baltic Federation!"

That idea would die from the dispute on the choice of the capital city.

"But, further unity between Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania, promotes greater cohesion and collective projects among and for the Baltic peoples."

It is the other way around - successful joint projects could bring about more unity.

[However, there is much more to "the Balts" and "the Baltic Nations" as they are a distinct ethnic group (including Estonians and Livonians) just as one may be Slavic, Nordic, Germanic, Celtic... and the three nations are more often than not, characterized together, as a coherent group with shared histories, customs etc. more than simply rhetoric and flag-waving.]

Estonians prefer to see that shared history as the history of post-swiderians, finnics and baltic-finnics, not as baltic. Balts prefer it the other way around.

[There is nothing genetically or politically "Nordic" about ethnic Estonians or Estonia.]

That depends on the definition of "Nordic"-ness.



2 months ago #9158698        

What I've never understood is why, if Baltic people are supposed to be all drab and depressed and liking grey, why do they have such colorful flags?

And just out of curiosity, is Prussia's flag the only one that is entirely black-and-white?



Meelis13

20 M
Moderator
2 months ago #9157015        

@LatvianAmerican
if what you just said it can be said about Estonia being Nordic, then by tenfold it can also be said about Estonia being baltic. Estonia should belong to same group as Finland though.



2 months ago #9156999        

@Meelis13 Coastal Swedes do indeed coexist happily in Estonia...this is semantics, there are 3,000 on Hiumaa (Sweden left contemporary Estonia in the 18th century! Baltic Germans lay claim more than Swedes, at this point). Feel free to champion Estonia as a "Nordic" state. There is nothing genetically or politically "Nordic" about ethnic Estonians or Estonia.



Meelis13

20 M
Moderator
2 months ago #9156892        

@LatvianAmerican
once again, you are speaking against yourself. Ethnic and politcal arent the same!
Also you seem to forget coastal swedes in Estonia, who are counterparts of fenno-swedes.



2 months ago #9156859        

@Meelis13 The ethnic and the political are one and the same, Estonia...after the Wall dropped, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia have consistently acted as one bloc. I understand that there are distinct ethnic, genetic differences between Finno-Ugric peoples (Finns, Sami, Estonians, Magyars, Livs) and ethnic "Balts" (Letts, Latgallians, Semgallians, Old "Eastern" Prussians, Lithuanians). This has changed, quite clearly. A parallel example is that of Fenno-Swedes, who serve as a perfect example of how Finland, became "Nordic".



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