10 years ago #9374524
5
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@MarcusZMonkey
Basically, Ukraine is made up of a number of territories, that at different times belonged to different empires - Polish, Russian, some Romanian regions I believe. So there is no such thing a unified position of Ukranian people on who to be with. Some are pro Russian, some are pro Western, some want their own independence.
We consider their current government to be installed via coup, and supporting just the pro-Western group of opinions. Note that the "full independence" party is not same as the "western" party, they actually had some bloody pages that prevent them associating with Europe like this one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
So when you hear that "Ukraine wants to be with Europe" it really means that "Government installed by Western coup wants to be with Europe and has support of some western areas". I would estimate their support as 30-40% of the population. Can be well wrong here.
The vote in Crimea... Well, they did carry it out with our troops on the peninsula. On the other hand, Crimea is mostly populated with Russians, was part of Russia, and the vote was going at the time when Ukraine was clearly heading into civil war, Russian language was getting banned by the newly installed government, and so on. I think people did vote for Russia then. If not for the reasons above, then because if they didn't, Crimea would be what Donbass is now.
PS "Racism" you mentioned is about the tatar minority, these guys would actually want to be with Turkey if with anyone. Ukrainian side says they are discriminated, our media says they are fine and shows how we let them legalize their buildings they had previously illegitimately built on the land that does not belong to them :3
While the media is not a reliable source on what is going on there, I do not think Russia will willingly abuse these guys, no reason for that. We also have tatar population in several other regions of Russia, and they would not be happy should Russia act bad.
Basically, Ukraine is made up of a number of territories, that at different times belonged to different empires - Polish, Russian, some Romanian regions I believe. So there is no such thing a unified position of Ukranian people on who to be with. Some are pro Russian, some are pro Western, some want their own independence.
We consider their current government to be installed via coup, and supporting just the pro-Western group of opinions. Note that the "full independence" party is not same as the "western" party, they actually had some bloody pages that prevent them associating with Europe like this one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
So when you hear that "Ukraine wants to be with Europe" it really means that "Government installed by Western coup wants to be with Europe and has support of some western areas". I would estimate their support as 30-40% of the population. Can be well wrong here.
The vote in Crimea... Well, they did carry it out with our troops on the peninsula. On the other hand, Crimea is mostly populated with Russians, was part of Russia, and the vote was going at the time when Ukraine was clearly heading into civil war, Russian language was getting banned by the newly installed government, and so on. I think people did vote for Russia then. If not for the reasons above, then because if they didn't, Crimea would be what Donbass is now.
PS "Racism" you mentioned is about the tatar minority, these guys would actually want to be with Turkey if with anyone. Ukrainian side says they are discriminated, our media says they are fine and shows how we let them legalize their buildings they had previously illegitimately built on the land that does not belong to them :3
While the media is not a reliable source on what is going on there, I do not think Russia will willingly abuse these guys, no reason for that. We also have tatar population in several other regions of Russia, and they would not be happy should Russia act bad.
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23
We should take care of our own country instead of invading the others and speak hate.