Everything is relative

I would dare say that most of the American people, or at the very least a good portion of us, would love the healthcare system to work a bit better and like some of the other countries have it. It would sure solve a lot of problems.

@boundgirlie

As a born Yankee of Nordic "ancestry", I second this.

(Note: "ancestry" is in quotes, because all those who have been following this comic know how our forebears treated 'illegitimate' children.)

(Second Note: Yes, I know as a standard that those of Norse heritage don't recognize Americans whose ancestors came from the Nordic countries as "Norse", but it's still my heritage, dagnabit, and I'm proud of my cousins-across-the-lake who made Nazis go broke, who made the oppressive British Empire shiver in fear, who discovered the Americas, who had gender-non-binary gods, who were awesome at all kinds of Things, and who loved growing multiculturally from helping build the great wall of China - to traveling with the Romani - to trading with Muslims when all southern Europeans could do was fight them.)

@boundgirlie yea I do believe your right on that. one of the reasons I think there hasn't been more of a push towards that is that they hear about all the failings of local single group plans. (such as the one for vets ) and aren't convinced that pushing for a nationwide one will work any better, and thus will end up actually causing more problems then it solves. with the best of intentions but the worst of implementations.

Anyone who claims the US system is good is either ignorant or lying. It has been demonstrated over and over that a single-payer, universal system will lower costs for every American and give us better outcomes. We have to resources to make a switch, we lack the balls.

But what can you expect from the U.S.A.? After all we have to to maintain our number 1 shithole country status.

@xxxxbcxxxx I agree we need better healthcare but we are not the only country that doesn't have universal healthcare, not to mention there are countries that treat its civilizations horribly not to mention have actual dictators that kill and imprisons their people for minor for "crimes", yeah the US had problems but we are not the 1 shithole country

@AmericanButterfly That's the issue though. What countries is this being compared to? Because it's not hard or is considered bare minimum to a impoverished corrupted government that is 50 years technologically behind or struggles to feed it's citizens. It's not hard to be better than North Korea, or a small unknown country in Africa. That's not a bar to set at all. It's the equivalent of "well, at least I'm not HItler or something" not a standard to be proud of.
America has literal states that don't have clean water, people who starve on the street and die, even in the more wealthy states, people who die of preventable diseases and struggle to put food on the table even though they work 2 jobs. Just because it's not the majority doesn't mean it's not happening to millions of people. It's the same in many 3rd world countries too, not all of them are starving and dying all the time, it's a big misconception that allows countries like the USA to feel better about themselves when in reality they are much like the countries they admonish and pity.

The other thing too is, you're not your country. Not one of us here is solely responsible for everything our country does and is. When I say the USA has a buttload of work to do to actually call itself a great nation, that isn't a judgement on the individuals that live there, especially since country is rarely a choice for most people.
Having pride in something you have little or no control over seems more like a defense mechanism to feeling attacked, which I get, but it doesn't help matters. It's like how impoverished cultures in the USA and other places end up having this pride notion to it, because we view our country as a intrinsic identifier to our personhood.

I came from the USA, I didn't leave till I was an adult. I now live in Europe. I don't view either country as "my country" I view them as places I existed in. It is vastly better where I am now, but that doesn't mean that it also couldn't use some work too. Take the good, condemn the bad. People have a tendency to go ham on dismissing the bad because the good exists at all. Good does not outweigh the bad for many many people living in the USA. I used to say it's great if you are wealthy, but even wealthy people routinely get screwed over by company policy and the protection/safety is so precarious vs other countries system set ups.

@Sinvanor I know the USA has a lot of issues and isn't perfect I know the federal minimum was is stupidly low and needs to be raised

and besides, you don't think European countries don't have the same issues as the US if not even more? and I don't just mean the wealthy western EU countries also those countries have problems too.

every country has issues, every country has problems

@AmericanButterfly But, that's not an excuse at all. Yes, everyone has issues, that doesn't mean that some aren't a lot worse than others or that they shouldn't be addressed. Everyone having issues doesn't mean countries are equal.
I used to live in the USA. I now live in a Northern European country and it's a ton better on many accounts. It has issues, but that's the nature of existing. A countries job is to try to minimize the inherent unfairness of existence and in my opinion the USA is failing hard on that measure. Especially when people say something like "Be thankful we aren't a place in the Middle East or Africa" Those aren't hard bars to surpass.

That said, there are also just a ton of cultural differences that make a lot of the overall difference which aren't as transferable. But that's it's own conversation to talk about what cultural aspects negatively work against the American populace.

@Sinvanor I can't even find the comment you are replying to and I don't remember saying anything about Africa or the middle east all I remember saying we aren't only country that doesn't have universal healthcare

People misjudged what I was trying to say I was not trying to say US healthcare is perfect or we don't need universal healthcare I do believe the US needs universal healthcare and better money equality etc why should other countries care what type healthcare system the US has why not care about the other countries that don't have universal healthcare too? The US is only single out cause easy to criticize and first world nation.

I just find hypocritical people will be like "The US needs universal healthcare" yet don't seem care that other countries don't have it just because of their geography location

Here what I think the whole world needs universal healthcare

@AmericanButterfly I don't understand why the reply system isn't structured to see comment chain, so I totally understand getting lost.

That I can answer, because I get that it's not fun to have everyone put down your country all the time and in some cases is just low hanging fruit.

2 main reasons people care so much about the USA even if they aren't in it.

First is that the USA is a 1st world nation and an fully industrialized one with subpar conditions. In some places said conditions reflect 2nd and 3rd world problems, such as some places not even having clean water access for citizens. That's not a problem people think of when they hear USA. It's abysmal and that stands out.

Second is it has a large population and economic power, so when the USA is doing well or not, it directly impacts the rest of the world because of it's economic ability and influence in our loose international system. This is why education matters too, because USA is such a powerhouse that it's politics in some ways became universal politics. What happens in the USA matters to everyone on one scale or another.

TL;DR: It's frustrating as well as terrifying to see it be doing so badly on so many accounts, especially in being a 1st world industrialized nation with high economic ability that impacts almost all other nations through its politics and economic decisions.

@xxxxbcxxxx It not balls we lack, but how entrenched the vested interests are in the current structure.

@ACORN24
It probably WOULD take balls to tell the uber-rich medical Insurance companies they're going out of business, and the for-profit doctors and hospitals that they're going to be making government civil servant wages from now on.

You think with all their money, they can't hire one sniper?

@xxxxbcxxxx It'll take decades before the US turn their system around, unfortunately... :-(

In Denmark, and be aware, we're only some 5.8 mill... it took a LOOONG time before the system was good enough so everyone have the same opportunities when it comes to healthcare. Now, it doesn't matter how rich you are, or if you live in a box behind an outhouse, you're taken care of if you get admitted, or even go see a random doctor, so being sick and not getting some sort of treatment is a choice here....

It wouldn't be such a big scare for many 'Muricans how we do the healthcare bit, if people would educate themselves on Denmark (or any other Scandinavian country's) political and public system. I've heard from friends in the US that they get told, even at college, that we a socialists AF, and we all live on the grace of our state.. Every time i have that discussion, lately at Thanksgiving (I have Family in Minnesota) I had to, while being kinda drunk ;-) Educate 9 family members, all 60+ on why, and how we are not a socialist country, even better.. one dumbass is even born here...

So, LOONG story short. Before all the old farts die out, and you guys start electing officials (red. POTUS's) who aren't 70-80+ years old, nothing will ever change... Sadly.. :-*

@xxxxbcxxxx Um, number 1 shithole?
Why are millions of people flocking into the US if it's that terrible? You have your issues, we all do, but you're NOT a shithole.

@xxxxbcxxxx

I don't know about "shithole," but it'll take quite a few years to repair the damage and make the US less of a laughing stock to the rest of the world. Literally. The UN very conspicuously lol'd when the ocher ogre addressed it.

@xxxxbcxxxx
We have these things called states, it is their job to manage people. So it makes sense for it to start there. California nearly had a system recently, but it failed to pass. Get it going in a state to show it's possible and it'll spread to others and at some point become national.

Too many fail to realize they live in a state that's basically a country that's forfeited certain powers to a Federal government and go about pretending the USA has total control like any other country elsewhere when it doesn't. They end up totally ignoring state and local elected officials who have the most impact on their life, only paying close attention to the national level or worse, just the president. Then wonder why we are a "shit hole". Would a European country blame the EU for everything and ignore it's own politicians causing the mess? That's what is happening in the USA.

So basically what I'm saying is get your state in order, then have greater expectations on the country that no one trusts because it's foundations are crumbling while everyone gawks at the bell tower.

@Steeeve "Would a European country blame the EU for everything and ignore it's own politicians causing the mess?"
As someone from the UK I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

@xxxxbcxxxx We have good. The problem is that much of the developed world has excellent or outstanding and good doesn't compare that well.

In Germany, a while back, we had this weird glitch in the political decision-makers where they thought that, instead of slightly raising healthcare fees, people should pay a little (10€) money when they go to the doctor. Not for each visit, though, or each doctor, just the first time in a quarter you go to the (any) doctor. The main results were:
- administration cost ate up most of the additional income
- people for whom money was tight and who didn't see doctors much anyway were discouraged from seeing a doctor even if it would have been good if they did
- people who went to see doctors all the time continued to do so anyway (both the vast majority with real issues and the kind of sort of targeted very small minority with frivolous complaints)
- people with private insurance (which is a thing here, too, as kind of a parallel system for rich people, self-employed people and a certain class of civil servants, kind of breaking the system for everyone) shrugged at the whole thing
- fees did rise anyway
- it was discontinued after a few years once politicians realized that demographics won't change to fit financial dogma

@VeryCreativeName
Don't leave out the best part: they had hoped that this 10€ fee would discourage unnecessary doctor's visits but the numbers did not even stay the same as you said: they increased! Because people now felt that after having paid for it already might as well get their money's worth and go a few more times that quarter.

I remember that time well myself - waiting rooms full of retired grandmas for whom the doctor's place was simply their meetup place with their similarily retired friends where they'd sit and chitchat (including some weird dick-measuring contest about whose health is the worst). They weren't even ashamed that the other patients clearly heard that they had no actual issues (or at least nothing acute that a doctor's visit could do anything about) from their conversations, they just wanted to hang out once or twice a week.

@Narf Heh, well, that showed a profound ignorance of human nature. Politicans...

@minando Apparently not the first time in Germany. My wife told me about a time when they tried to not have people who are written sick get paid, thinking that it would make people not get written sick more often. Apparently it had the reverse affect and people didn't feel guilty since they weren't being paid and would call in sick anyway.

Donald Trump: We in USA has the best hospital care!
The rest of the world: But only rich people in USA gets good hospital care! Everybody, poor or rich, African or European, a kid or an old man or woman, you gotta get god hospital care.

@Smartis Donald Trump: Poor people don't count.

@AttundaViking

No, no. He's right. We also have an outsized share of the best athletes. That MOST OF US couldn't run a four-minute mile, or touch our own toes, doesn't detract from the fact that we make a Very Good showing at the Olympics.

'@AttundaViking' Exact! But poor people would always exist until we fix it.

'@Smartis' If you only judge by the care rich people get Cuba offers pretty stiff competition.

I must admit I literally LOL when I got to the 3rd panel. Its such a tragedy that that country is handicapped by a system that seems designed to make money for insurance and medical groups rather than give treatment to patients.

@stevep59 That is exactly what the system is designed for.

@stevep59
Check out Ken Burns' doc on the Mayo Clinic. Much like the crew of the USS Ward and the 1st Minnesota Volunteers, it takes hearty, valorous Northmen to be an example to the rest of the nation. Especially towards those overrated Cheeshead wankers.

I am an American, and I am on Medicaid. So far, I have paid only dental bills in the last 3 years. I also live in a blue state that expanded Medicaid under the ACA. (Obamacare, for the non-Americans.) All hospital, ambulance, and even surgical bills were paid 100%.

I got very lucky to choose a Medicaid plan designed for diabetics, the year before I was diagnosed. However, if I leave the state for more than 30 consecutive days, or start making a living wage, I will no longer be eligible.

I wish, at the very least, that Medicaid covered everyone in the US, but there's such a stigma. I've had an urgent care center literally turn me away when they saw my Medicaid card. Some people have sneered at me for "taking advantage of the system" when I was at the hospital because I'd collapsed at school.

It is f'd up, but that won't change until the politicians do.

@Cygnata I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and they told me my ambulance and emergency room visit weren't covered because it turned out not to be "life threatening." I'm so thrilled to hear that!

@Edward1955 - Oh, and let me tell you about Delta Dental, which told my dentist AFTER the fact that they weren't going to pay for $750 worth of extractions, because I'd had too many done at one time!

@Edward1955
As a dental underwriter, I guarantee that your Schedule of Benefits/Summary of Plan Design documents specifically mentions that any time you are receiving benefits over ($250-300), you are obligated to inform the plan UP FRONT. This is actually standard language nearly universal in the industry. The problem is that most dentist offices check this up front for their patients, so people overlook this.

Appeal your claim. If it gets denied, escalate it to the next level. Ask the office manager at your dentist's office to help you with this. If the office is a big provider, they may carry some weight with the insurer.

@Cygnata

"It is f'd up, but that won't change until the politicians do."

Politicians change when you stop voting for them.
Americans need to vote in every election and never ever for a Republican - they're a plague on your country.

@Cygnata The best Interview of a Republican Voter in German TV i ever saw was in 2016:
"I don't need no f*** Obamacare, i have ACA and thats it's enough ! "

Thats how they got the sentement against the Affordable Care Act running,
they gave it a fake names which didn't show up on the Paperwork.

Last year when I had to get hospitalised, I cried, because I was so thankful for everybody who pay taxes and giving me opportunity to get well again without thinking of any bill. I wished every country could experience that

'@kruehees' Everyone thinks about your bill. Nobody likes giving away money.

My healthcare plan is "don't get sick, and if you do, you have whiskey. If it worked in the 1800s it'll work now".

I wish I was kidding.

@txag70 I wish too. Good luck with the health

@kruehees Well, I'm young, in decent shape, and I live in the rural deep south, so I should make it through the next pandemic wave alright, especially once I build my home gym.

Oh man I can't WAIT to have that.

@txag70 Two things, In the 1800's--Those people were in better shape than most Americans these days. And, the environment was way less screwed up. Way fewer commercial poisons, sewage from millions, fertilizers and pesticides poured directly into the water table. So you might have to amend your plan a bit, maybe befriend a veterinarian. Just in case.

@mlzbksusa I keep pretty strong with my own weightlifting. I'm in pretty darn good shape myself -- and I do intend to begin growing my own produce/canning and pickling the excess the way people used to do as late as the 30s.

As far as commercial poisons and sewage and such, that drawback is balanced out by the superior health knowledge we have access to in the 21st century compared to the 19th. I have a far better idea of what vitamins and minerals are going into my body than basically anyone from the 19th century did.

....plus, I live next to a superfund site. *shrug* there are bigger things to be worried about, life moves on.

Oh woah, if 160 kroner is around 21€, then Norway's doctors are even cheaper than France, where it's 25€ (that you get back as soon as you send the bill).
Heck, my healthcare even prevents me from paying at all. Sure gotta love Europe.

[cries in American]

@Schiffy *pats back in scottish*