Wow I just learned this word was brought to europe by Britain and was borrowed from indo languages (precisely the word jungal from Hindoustani). It's a fairly recent word too (in French it appeared in the late 18th century) .
After some thinking I guess it makes sense we didn't have a word for it as it is something that does not exist in europe. But then I thought, wait a minute, european nations probably encoutered jungles before the 18th century in america and africa... Mostly Spain and Portugal though... So I wondered if they had a different word for it, and guess what, they do ! In Spanish and Portuguese they say selva, while almost every other european nation uses a variant of the english word jungle (even the other romance languages, jungle in French, jungla in Romanian and giungla in Italian). Crazy heh ?
Here was your useless fact of the day... You don't have to thank me...
Oh but, Isdaril, my dear, allow me to thank you. It's always a pleasure to learn something (no irony whatsoever) even if there doesn't seem to be an obvious use.
La jungle du 21e siècle, c'est la ville... ou le centre commercial le 1er jour des soldes...
I do (speak Dutch), but the flag is the Luxembourg flag. The difference is in the shade of blue. The Netherlands have dark blue while Luxembourg has light blue.
As the much regretted France Gall used to sing : "C'est peut-être un détail pour vous..."
As for "jungle" translations,
- the Dutch have "jungle" and "oerwoud" (from "oer-" extremely ancient/primitive + "woud" = forest)
@Daru oops... Didn't mean to offend you, I didn't even know the Luxembourg flag was similar to the dutch flag (how ignorant of me :s)...
The red seem lighter too now that I've looked at them more closely and the proportions a little different too.
You seem to speak french too, are you particularly good at languages or is it normal to speak several ones in Luxembourg ?
@Isdaril
Rest assured Isdaril, you didn't offend me at all.
Apart from the light blue vs dark blue, there's no notable difference between the two flags.
As for my languages, I'm actually a bi-national Belgian-Luxembourger and even the Belgian part is bi-regional francophone and dutch. The language I'm the most at ease with is oral French, French spelling and grammar is a real pain in the ***. So, you're right I'm enjoying a talent for languages.
But, you, for a Frenchman, your English isn't bad at all.
As for the Luxembourg flag some people in the Grand-Duchy would like another flag, a red lion on a background of white and light blue stripes. https://fotw.info/images/l/lu~alt.gif
Personally, I'd rather not get excited for a flag, be it contemporary or medieval. It's the people behind the excitement for a flag that can be pleasant... or worrying.
There's satirical site, News Thump, you may have heard of, which claims that flags with dragons on, are ‘just cooler’, and that it's confirmed by science...
I rather like the Zeeland flag. I'd however avoided putting both silver (white) and gold (yellow). It seems heraldry tries to putting both metals on the same shield. Mind you, I may be wrong.
As for the possible change of Luxembourg flag, it's not up to me to choose and there's nothing scheduled.
As I said to Isdaril, the flag is not the issue, it's the people behind that worry me.
@Tuveanthermark
wrote : "Anglicism, how could we have ever manage without it?"
Indeed the Dutch love-hate relationship with the English is as old as... probably even older than the Verenigde Provinciën.
I'll completely agree with you when you state there are also "wildernis" and "woesternij". Personally I never use "woesternij" it seems so... "obsolete".
"Wildernis" is a term I use but there are many places that could be described as "wildernis" in my use of the term. When I was in the Australian, I felt I was in "de wildernis". Every animal, every insect, every plant could become a lethal danger. It was in no sense "a jungle". "Jungle" is, according to me, a tropical, densely wooded "wildernis".
I'm wondering how you use those various terms. I really do.
Saluutjes, zoals ze soms zeggen in West-Vlaanderen.
@Daru , My southern neighbour, Indeed the odd relationship between Dutch and English is an old one and problably even started befor the Dutch (national) unification, it even lasts these days and is 'fought' at two fronts, the Low-Franconian (not French) speaking Hollanders and Brabanders in the west and the south, against the Frisians and a Saxon coalision in the north and the east, and the "English" in the far west. Frisian and several "Saxon" dialect are actually closer related to English instead of Dutch.
A 'jungle' is indeed a "Wildernis" but a 'Wildernis' is not, necessarily a jungle (Wildernis: {pure nature with no or barely any influence of man}). As for a 'Woestenij' a could be an example (pure and unhospitable nature with no or barely any influence of man). 'Woestenij' is not the same as 'Woestijn' though and mostly is a Wildernis that has become unhospitable for people, like the Australian Outback.
As you seem to show a deep knowledge of your language and you are able to convey your message clearly.
Of course, some teachers can be "messy", and some engineers... well... there have been examples of engineers who were not totally up to the job.
You'll be surprised to learn that, until my retirement, I used to teach (yep !) to students in the bachelor's and master's degree of industrial engineering. It was grand. Sometimes, they were a pain, at other times, we had such a good time together that we didn't notice the 3 hours had passed. Such is the job.
It's not really the teachers who are to blame, believe me, but those "psychopedagogues" who have never had to teach to a real group of students for a whole year. As an engineer, you know it, it's easy to say something has to work because it was calculated to work and then comes reality and you notice that the device doesn't work. I really enjoyed the no-bullshit mentality of my former students.
I would'nt call it "messy" it's more like "chaotic", i suppose, atleast that is in my experience.
At my work office the whole engineering dep. was seted in one officespace and we poted a A2 sised print on our door, with, in my oppinion, the most briljant quote from one of the greatest minds from the 19nd - 20st cetury, Albert E.; "Nur kleine Geister brauchen ordnung Genies können mit dem Chaos leben." As a warning sign like "Beware, for beyond this door lays a realm of uncoprehansible chaos!"
Even though I do know allot about the school system since I have several relatives that are teachers, math and physics. Then again, that says little to nothing about my development to become a engineer, I could have become a rock musician if you'd reckon that practicly half my family (my fathers whole direct family) actualy plays an istrument or 2.., 3.
Even though those "psychopedagogues" surely aren't of any real use they atleast don't derail the schooling system as thoroughly as pollyticians, ever since I was done with school (17 years ago) the system has been changed 15 times already.
@Diogo Yeah well in French we got some words coming from silva like 'sylvestre', which means from the forest or 'sylviculture' (we somehow replaced the 'i' with a 'y' along the way though)... But it only means forest for us and it has a tranquil ring to it while 'jungle' has a savage ring to it.
That being said, the word savage ('sauvage' in french) seems to come from silva too so I guess it can have that meaning for us too.
@Isdaril Dutch also has the word "oerwoud", meaning "primal forest" or "primal woods", though the Dutch word "woud" sounds quite a but more wild and untamed than "forest", for which we have the more civilised word "bos".
@Isdaril unfortunately, Finland's closest relatives (namely, Estonia and Hungary) borrowed too much loanwords from their Indo-European neighbors; Estonia borrowed "dzungel" from neighboring Latvia and/or Russia's "dzungli". While Hungary borrowed "dzsungel" from Austria's High German "Dschungel".
The word ptarmigan came from the Scottish Gaelic word tarmachan, used to refer to the bird. When it first entered into the English language, it was spelled as simply 'tarmigan', until a group of Latin and Greek supremacists came along. They thought that English should be more like Latin and Greek, so they did things like creating the 'do not split infinitives' rule, because you can't do it in Latin. These people saw the word 'tarmigan', they thought it derived from the Greek word for wing, 'pteros', and they added a random p to the beginning of the word to make 'ptarmigan'.
Meanwhile, Finland and Iceland are sitting on the curb outside Club Scandinavia, sipping bourbon while the club's bouncer Åland is glaring at them murderously.
ICELAND: Should we tell them what *we* call jungle?
FINLAND: Nah. Look at the grief they're giving Sweden over one letter.
@DarkMage7280 The silly thing is that they're arguing over the spelling of an *imported word* ;) Those three are always just taking words from English. Frumskógur = primeval forest. Simple, right?
@Rogers Yeah, the -ur (in the nominative case) is the same as the Old Norse -r. For example, Haraldr -> Haraldur. In a lot of respects, Icelandic hasn't changed much over time Although it has changed in some really weird ways - for example, opposite of most Nordic languages, sæng is duvet and dýna is mattress. I suspect it's because in the old days, due to poverty, there really wasn't much of a difference between a duvet and a mattress... you slept on a bench and wrapped yourself with whatever warm thing you had, under and over.
I do love that we create new words rather than just importing, though. It's funny if you look up any random technical topic on Wikipedia then mouseover the articles for the topics in other languages... Icelandic is always a standout. For example, just to pick a random one, "photon" - it's Foton, Fotón, Foto, Footon, Fotono, etc etc... and then you get to Icelandic and its "ljóseind" ;) And it's not like French where you have the "proper" word but most people use the taken word... e.g. we really do use the Icelandic words. I mean, to be fair, there still are plenty of cases where we also have borrowed words, particularly with young people (and some English words have basically become part of the language... including, annoyingly, the word "basically" :Þ). But we really do try
German does something similar, as it uses `dsch` to represent the sound a J makes in English. Maybe Gustavus Adolphus is to blame, that Sweden brought it back in their baggage after the Thirty Years War?
EDIT: the German word for Jungle is "Dschungel", by the way. Not to be confused with "Duschgel"
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After some thinking I guess it makes sense we didn't have a word for it as it is something that does not exist in europe. But then I thought, wait a minute, european nations probably encoutered jungles before the 18th century in america and africa... Mostly Spain and Portugal though... So I wondered if they had a different word for it, and guess what, they do ! In Spanish and Portuguese they say selva, while almost every other european nation uses a variant of the english word jungle (even the other romance languages, jungle in French, jungla in Romanian and giungla in Italian). Crazy heh ?
Here was your useless fact of the day... You don't have to thank me...