The biggest and bestest hostage taker

I remember someone asking in a comment on this site if Trump was actually going to build a wall, once he won the election - way back in 2016.

I said then it'll never happen - and it won't.

And it's not because of only the Democrats opposing it, like he claims and his supporters believe - it's because even his own Republican party doesn't want the damn thing.

Because it's just a huge waste of money that wouldn't work anyway.

Any wall can be climbed or tunnelled under easily enough - unless you also man it with guards along the entire stretch.

So not only would the wall itself cost billions to build, it would then cost billions more in upkeep and the personal needed to guard it - forever.
At the same time as border crossings are at an historic low and there are far less costly ways of tightening control over the border - if you still feel you need too (which you actually don't).

So it'll never happen.

Trump can't get Mexico to pay for it, he couldn't get a Republican-controlled congress to pay for it - and he sure as shit won't get this congress to pay for it either.

Like most hostage takers Trump is just a desperate idiot without a plan trying to threaten and bluff everyone else into giving him what he wants.

And like most hostage takers he won't succeed - because he's demanding way more then anyone is willing to give him.

@Nisse_Hult
I can't remember where I saw one of the more "devastating" points:
Even i trump would get money for wall, it would take years to even start building it.
And by that point, there could be new president who cancels whole project and targets to money more useful thing.
So even if there's money to build the wall, it still not guaranteed that wall would be allowed to be build.

Extra point: in few years there certainly will be drones powerful enough to lift people => people could fly over the unmanned parts of the wall.

@atlachan
More devastating than that: prototype sections of the wall were demonstrated being cut through with portable hand tools.
And elaborate tunnels going under the border have been a problem for decades.

Yuup. Not to mention that the eminent domain cases would take years.

@Nisse_Hult Ya know, I actually believe the point of this whole thing isn't the wall... which he could have at least tried to get past his Republican Congress... I think the shutdown itself IS the end goal for him. The longer he sits in the White House, the more I believe he's not just bad at governing, he's actively TRYING to undermine America. Like, Russia didn't just help him get elected, but maybe he IS actually working for them. It's crazy, I know, but damn if the evidence isn't piling up.

@TuxedoCartman I don't think he's directly working for Russia so much as Putin figured that he was someone who'd cause massive domestic chaos and destruction. 45's lack of ability to actually work with other people and lack of understanding of what his job actually is means that the US hasn't been in a position to oppose anything Putin has wanted to do for the last two years.

@Nisse_Hult Actually there is already a good size area with "walls" (fences) already up and it would cost less to complete than we give away. To our government, the expense is a drop in the bucket. Our media does love trying to make people think otherwise.

However, there is a good point in that it's pointless. We can setup cameras and sensors, like they use in some places in Africa to catch poachers. We could also use the money to help Mexico deal with their issues and stop meddling in countries across the ocean unless our allies actually want help. Mexico would make a far better "border wall", it just needs to overcome it's corruption and cartel problems so that people wish to stay there.

@Steeeve

"Actually there is already a good size area with "walls" (fences) already up and it would cost less to complete than we give away. To our government, the expense is a drop in the bucket. Our media does love trying to make people think otherwise. "

Actually, there isn't.
There are portions that have walls - yes - but only a tiiiny fraction of the entire distance.
Look at a map - the US-Mexico border is huge.

But either way - it would still cost much more to man the entire stretch of the wall - which is what you have to do to get any use out of it.
Last time someone tried anything on this scale was the Great Wall of China - it hasn't been done since, because it's simply not practical and it would cost huge sums of money to keep operational.

The US being the richest country in the history of the world it could obviously still afford it if it chose to - but most reasonable people would think universal health care would be a more sensible priority.

Especially since every other industrialized nation on earth (and many even poorer countries) already has that.

"We could also use the money to help Mexico deal with their issues"

The best help the US could give Mexico would be to deal with your insane gun laws.
Almost all guns fueling the violence in Mexico are bought legally in the US and smuggled into Mexico.

@Nisse_Hult @Steeeve
Don't worry about Mexico. If you are up to date, you know that Mexico has a new left winger president, the first since three decades of neoliberalism supported by the USA, Juan Manuel Lopez Obrador. With the Latin American left (called socialism of the 21st century), Mexico will favor the industry, the internal economy, and slow down the free market. By favoring the industrial economy of the country will improve the quality of life and many Mexicans will not be in need of emigrate nor will they believe that of the "American dream". With the new presidency good things can happen with Trump as bad ones , but Mexico will succeed in this six years.

PS: And what @Nisse_Hult says is true, it would be nice if the United States stopped selling illegal weapons illegally on the border with Mexico. the media doesn't talk about these and more strange things than the US does on the border, only RT talks about this.

@Nisse_Hult Hmmm about bildung huge walls. ever heard of the Berlin wall? the physical embodiment of the iron wall?
Complete with guard towers, fences, concrete walls, barbed wire, anti-vehicle trenches, landmines, spring guns and so on...
People found a way past that wall. and they will find a way past trump's wall. especially the more desperate they are....

now that I think about it... the Berlin wall was meant to imprison the population, not defend from attacks. maybe....

@Nisse_Hult most illegal immigrants come over planes as well

@Nisse_Hult you think its easy to dig a tunnel 5 feet underground? Or carrying a 20 foot ladder through the desert? Isreal and Turkey have walls and they're very effective. Ground and vibration senors detect any breach attempt and tells the authorities where it is without any wasteful drones. Then the time they waste trying to circumvent the wall keeps them at the same location.

@Djanzad
Generally speaking, any argument based on what Turkey & Israel do is a little suspect. Those are not entirely normal countries with entirely sane politics, and they have terrible relations with their neighbours.

Now, Hungary does fence off its border sometimes, but that's because of authoritarian politics.

And Greece has its own issues with Northern Macedonia, Albania, and, okay, everybody.

But the USA-Mexico border is supposed to be different. The cultures are related, the countries are at peace, there's a lot of movement back & forth--why is there such a constant whine for a barrier?

@niauropsaka They both border violent areas. Mexicos murder rate as a whole is higher than many major cities. That's ignoring the drug trade and human trafficking.

And no our cultures are not that similar. The border patrol are very often shot at and some in recent months have been killed. It's not like the borders in EU where people can skip hand alin hand across the border happily and just peacefully buy some things in mexico without fear of their life.

Mexico's crime rate is in the rise. And most of central america (eg Honduras) is way way higher. The idea of a border fence is to make it so people go to the gates where we can easier screen what they're bringing in.

@Djanzad

Smugglers are already digging tunnels under the short stretches of wall that has already been built by previous administrations.
I just saw footage of Trump being shown images of this and having it explained to him, when he visited the border recently.

No one would use a ladder - a rope with a grappling hook is what you use.

Ever looked at a map?
The wall in Israel would have to wrap something like 50 times around the entire country (if that is even enough) to come close to the distance of the US-Mexico border.
And if Turkey has some wall somewhere it's certainly not covering their entire border (and still, their entire land border is still much shorter then the US-Mexico border of course).

I guess you get these comparisons from some right-wing outlet, trying desperately to find anything to support Trumps idiotic brain fart of an idea.
But the fact remains that he can't even get his own republican congressmen to support this nonsense - people who otherwise support him on everything - that's how f*ing stupid this idea is.

@Nisse_Hult Unfortunately, this has nothing to do with the wall. The cruelty behind the shutdown is the point (not dreamed up by Trump, but his advisers), not an effect. While the US media is focused on the shutdown, they are missing the reality as the national parks fall apart which will be leveraged later to sell them for mineral rights, and people were brought back to approve off-shore drilling with little to no oversight. Some things are getting some attention (e.g. the Deripaska deal), but most are not.

The Census is being dramatically affected by this which will result in inappropriate resource reallocation as well as affecting rights. FDA inspections are being missed in many areas now, a number of FBI investigations halted, and federal workers can't pay bills.

And we can't approve the wall at this point because, just like a toddler that holds his breath because he isn't getting his way, you can't react to it or the toddler will just keep using that trick over and over again.

Overall, this is a power play, and neither US media nor most politicians have the wherewithal to understand that.

@Nisse_Hult Wow. People all around the world get it, why can't half of our darn population?! Please note that two thirds of the country thinks he is doing a bad job. We are not all like him.

It's not even tunnel or climbing makes this ridicules, there was report about immigrants (from Mexico) coming to USA and majority were coming with plains or coming with legal ground and overstaying. So in practice wall would be expensive to build, expensive to maintain and would achieve nothing practical. But there's catch, trump supporters don't want anything practical, if big yellow men tells that all their problems is because of missing wall, they will accept that.

Angry Toddler's gonna Angry Toddler

Trump states on camera that he would proudly shut down the government.
*Government shuts down*
"It's all the Dems fault!!!"

Trump tweeted during Obama's "failing" administration that he controlled both house and couldn't get initiatives passed.
*Same thing happens during Trump presidency*
"It's all the Dems fault!!!"

It's actually been reported that the Dems are willing to give Trump his money for the wall (or fence or metaphorical structure or whatever it is today) in exchange for permanent protection for the Dreamers. Trump turned this down.

@Crakkerz In all honesty I don’t think that last part is true. Unfortunately there’s not a lot of middle ground in our government right now and all our politicians either want it their way or the high way. Really no one is up for negotiations right now, Conservatives or Liberals. I also use Conservative and Liberal terms because Republican and Democrats are more middle leaning.

'@Snickerwolf22' Trump was offered 25 billion over a year ago if he'd just fix one of the hundreds of things he has broken, intentionally, for no other reason than to hurt people. He refused because he is a monster.

To hell with any talk of obstructionist democrats. This is totally on Trump and would be even if he hadn't previously said he would take responsibility for any shutdowns. Congress is putting it's foot down, refusing to be bullied and affirming separation of powers.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-chemerinsky-trump-constitution-20190108-story.html

I love my country. But I don't always love my govt.

@Buck50 As a true patriot should.

@Buck50

Your not alone in that by a long way. Its at least 40 years since we've had a half-way decent government in Britain and "half-way decent" is only really in comparison to what's come since.

@stevep59 A shame Spitting Image never got a reboot.

@Dan

I found it a bit too simplistic and eager to paint extremes and hence often help worsen things I fear.

Let’s compromise and build a wall around the White House.

@Nizzemancer you see I like this person thinking a smart man

@VivaWorld546 Only around the oval office with trump inside

@TRUMPSGONNAKILLME ok sounds better

@Nizzemancer The most Swedish comment ever (also clever)

@Nizzemancer
And Trump's house.
He ain't going to be president forever. That won't make him harmless.

@Nizzemancer So how does it feel to be able to predict the future? What's your next prediction, wise one? Because a year and a half later, indeed, it happened.

*laughs, then sighs because she lives in America and really doesn't like what's going on*

@Dancergirl88 You and me both sister. *sigh*

@Hfar *hug*

@Dancergirl88
You will get through this. Soon, I hope.
*shoves German Chocolate Cake across Atlantic

@LovePeacePancakes Thanks friend

I would pay full price to see a show with Canada and Mexico as cops

@VivaWorld546 +1, México a policewoman that looks sweet and peacefull but is very aggresive and can make you kiss your own ass. Canada a bug burly hairy man that is really sweet and when he sings wild animals come to him and is afraid of México in her rants <3

@VivaWorld546
Well, this is at best half of what you want, but you might enjoy watching it anyway:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_South
"Due South" was a crime drama/comedy show about a Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) officer working together with a Chicago police detective to solve crimes... In full, bright red uniform, and he even brought along his white wolf. Their vastly different approaches to policework fueled a lot of the show's comedic moments. It was pretty popular and ran for 4 seasons, in 1994-1999.

@Hinoron well that’s close enough

I'd love to see more comics about Brother America and Sister Mexico's relationship.

Or just more Sister Mexico in general lol

i get benefits from the government because i'm disabled. i've already been told that i might not receive some of them if the government doesn't resume by Feb. 1st. our local food pantry is almost out of food because the influx of government workers. and can't get vital paperwork so i can apply for community based resources. it totally sucks that he's throwing a tantrum when we REALLY need that money for more pressing issues...

@Foxtrick
I hate to think what would have happened to my mom's benefits if she was still alive. She lived just long enough to see him elected. She said that she didn't really have any hope for the future when that happened. I hope things go ok for you.

@Foxtrick There's never really a good time to do that. Expect this to happen again and again with the next presidents, just as it happened with the previous ones.

@Foxtrick

Sooo you are saying Democrats prefer to held you hostage, because they think foreign citizens' welfare is more valuable than yours? Wow, they are nuts.

@szopen no, i'm saying that the president is holding the country hostage over something that will not work, will damage our country, will cost far more money than he proposes, and won't be funded by mexico...

@Foxtrick
But the same can be said for your Democrats. They refuse to fund the wall, and they are willing to risk lifes and welfare of thousands of people for that purpose.

But I don't know. maybe in USA you are different. In my country we believe the main purpose of the government is to care for its own citizens, even at the cost of citizens of other countries, if really necessary. Seems to me you are willing to sacrifise the welfare of your poorest and most vulnerable ones to get foreigners better.

And of course walls do work. google the number of illegal infilitration to Israel before and after building their wall.

@Foxtrick He maybe trying to obstruct the FBI investigation. Now I’m not saying that this shut down actually could cause the FBI to end it’s investigation’s due to a lack of funding but I am saying that Trump wouldn’t be smart enough to figure out that this shit down won’t shut down the FBI.