The odd man out

OK Contriversial opinion here but I think the best person should get the job regardless of gender, age or colour.

@MrOdinlemont Thank you! That's the only right way!

I don't get this "everything gets better if a woman is our head of state" sh*t. They only say it because of Angela Merkel, but lisen up you idiotic left-progressiv idiots: Merkel had enough experience when she got in office. She was not an amateur, unlike this women who really only got the job, because they are women!

Not everything (if anything) gets automaticaly better just because you choose a woman as leader of a country! Finland is a very good example for this! No experience plus a situation where you have to act swiftly and diplomatically nearly resulted in the dissolving of the new government.

When you want real change, don't grab the first femal politicians you can get and make her the head of state, but change the very fabric of the political parties and the system in the society. Ask yourself *why* there are so many experienced and competend men but so little women in high positions. Why most femal politicians are still humiliated or ignored, even if they're right with what they say. If the system is changed, things will truely get better, because half of the population is no longer ignored.

@IcePhoenix The first time you get a female head of state, it's a wonderful thing, in a world that has seemed predominated by men. Then you discover that the women aren't that much better. Finallly, gender means nothng as opposed to their ability, because each can be equally shitty.

Spoken as someone who went 'wheeeeeeee!' at our first female prime minister, and was terribly disappointed. The second isn't impressing, either (excepting her ability to stand up to Donald Trump). But the guy between those two kept collecting scandal after scandal, so I'm still praying for a better head of government, regardless of gender.

@IcePhoenix Maggie Thatcher was probably the best evidence that having a woman as head of government (prime ministers are NOT heads of state) doesn't necessarily make anything better.

@westofEden
Very true but unfortunately none of the ones since have been responsible either.

@IcePhoenix As a idiotic left-progressive: Sorry, but we fucking hate Merkel. Like, she is a female, and no one cares. We hate her like the fucking pest. Guess why... Because she is an conservative... Almost like we literally do not care if they are female if they are shit.

@IcePhoenix Lol i think you're making a mistake in thinking that Angela Merkel is the only experienced female politician, just because she's old, Danish politicians spend their life in youth parties before they get into the actual party and then they spend a decade or more in the party before they become the leader of that party, which in most cases means that they become the stateminister if that party has the most mandates after an election.

Does being "young" (let's be real just because you're not 65 doesn't mean you're young) make you an amateur? No, it doesn't.

@MrOdinlemont Truth in theory, but I only hear that argument in the mouth of men when talking about women in power. I wonder why the coincidence.

@P4t4t4_fr1t4 No it's just true. Could you explain to me why you think it matters that the people you tend to see make the arguement is men? because the only reason i can see that it matters is if you're sexist.

@MrOdinlemont
I mean yeah... isn't that the normal way of thought?
Where I come from, everybody seems to think that way.

@MrOdinlemont How's this even controversial? Isn't this how it's supposed to be?

@ImportViking
Some company leaders hire people based on gender, color and race, rather than skill and professionalism, believing that the key to running a good company is having a workforce that looks like a bowl of Reece's Pieces

@Zenon Agreed. I'm 100% in favor for having the best people on the job, and parameters like gender, orientation, religion, etc don't play a role there. It's worse if things get forced.

I know that a university in The Netherlands explicitly stopped hiring men to increase the number of women. I honestly wonder what they're trying to achieve. On the short term sure, they'll meet their guidelines for number of hired females. But will these people ever be accepted? As soon as they make a mistake they probably hear 'that was expected, you're only hired because you're a woman.' Which might make them quit as it may be experienced as bullying on the job. How's that helping anyone?

@MrOdinlemont Woah! slow your roll with the hot takes here!

@MrOdinlemont agree, but then again, you have boris johnson so you really arent in any poaition to talk right now ;)

@MrOdinlemont It's only controversial due to this:

Politics is 3 Pats: The Political system, The Political ideologies, and something I like to call "Manoeuvring". Manoeuvring is where backroom deals, Lobbying, alliances, brown nosing and all that interesting stuff happens... this last part is the hardest to learn.

@MrOdinlemont
Indeed. And in a single post(like prime minister), you can have gender equality only if you appoint some sort of hermaphrodite.

Sure, it's a sign of equality advancing that women *can* get to those positions. Yet the woman *being* in the position really isn't, she's just a qualified(hopefully) person in the job.

Only the norwegian PM, Iron Erna, is respectable. The 4 others are a bunch of clueless leftist, that ought to be removed from office.

@minimilk Judging by the pictures, I'm not surprised. Many people are too enamored with this young handsome/beautiful charismatic leader, that is both tough and has great governing abilities. But the truth is, people need more than passion and knowledge - they really do need lots and lots of experience to be good leaders, the reality is, most young people are passionate but they are just not as competent as older people with more experience to work from.

@Ethelwood
It might just be the photo, but Katrin looks like a teenager to me.

@Hinoron

I must admit that was my initial thought. Checking on Wiki she's 43 and her picture there looks markedly more mature. Suspect it could be an older picture or possibly because its pretty small its not as clear and she just looks that young.

@Hinoron Sanna Marin of Finland, however, is actually damn near a teenager. I believe she's still in her 20's.

@Lord_Skata

She's 35, and a mother of one. Pretty damn far from being a teenager.

@Ethelwood OK Boomer.

@westofEden OK Embryo.

@DarkMage7280 I'm a boomer myself. However, I'm aware that the youngsters have quite a lot to offer, mainly that they're not old and so are less likely to be set in their ways.

@westofEden I am not a boomer, I am in my early 20's, but I do a lot of self-reflection and I am learning a lot in work from people who have had more life experience, and I can definitely tell that most older people actually are able to think of the bigger picture more with their decision making, most times from experiences, that I often times miss. I admit that not all people who have lived longer will be wiser, and some people do have a natural talent, but majority of the time, experience matter so much more. Something about young brains not being quite as developed and more prone to emotional irrationality - or maybe just growing hormones.
I feel younger people a great at innovations and passion, but when it comes to major decision making and final execution, older people with more experience are better.

@Ethelwood With the difference that none of them is charismatic, actually.

@minimilk Stefan Löfvén might be clueless, but he's no leftist. He's a neoliberal centrist. It's the adoption of right-wing policies (privatisation, tax cuts) that has Sweden going to shit right now.

@odourpreventer He is a socialdemocrat. A lefty. A socialist. Nothing centrist or right wing about him. Acctually speaking of swedish politicians, only the SD deserves not to be called lefties in Sweden. The others are muzzy loving socialists or libtards.

@minimilk

What a sad existence people like you - who talk in far-right newspeak - lead.

You either have no clue about the political spectrum or are just deliberately trolling for attention - or both.

@Nisse_Hult

Social democrats are leftist. They are not right wing. Not even close. They take much of their political ideas from Marx, Engels, Luxemburg, Lassalle etc. Read up on the history of social democrats.

You must be very young (less than 35) since you can't remember your own past.

Sweden is no longer the Sweden I knew when I was young. Somewhere along the way Sweden took a serious wrong turn, none of your mainstream or leftwing politicians seems to willingly to admit this and none wish to change it.

The proud strong fierce vikings of Sweden who defended themselves against tyrants are nowhere to be found, instead Sweden is up for sale for the price of a kebab.

Ohh.. and your alcohol is overpriced and Pripps blaa is shit.

@minimilk

Real Social democrats are leftist yes - but as odourpreventer rightly said Löfvén is a Social Democrat in name only - and on top of that he's governing with a budget dictated by right-wing parties.

Oh, I'm both older and more read up on history then you imagine.

Which is why I recognize that "proud strong fierce vikings" bullshit for the sad fake machismo of the far-right.

Sweden - and the vast majority of Swedes - have done better under Social democratic rule then we ever did under the right.

Now before you even bother claiming knowledge of anything else in a discussion with me, divulge what country you're actually from and what personal experience you have of Sweden - if you've ever even been here.

@minimilk Uh oh. My far-right-radar is going crazy over here!

All politics in Sweden has moved to the right. While the social democrats used to be to the left, they have now moved quite a bit bit to the right. Removing taxes for the richest, privatizing health, welfare and most other things. And Stefan even put them in the center on a political compass on election night here.

And "Swedish" vikings didn't defend themselves from anything. They traveled to other places and raided or bartered. Not once were the area that would become Sweden attacked and forced to defend themselves from any "tyrants".

Ohh and Pripps Blaa is bad, nobody in Sweden drinks that.

@minimilk You are clearly an American and, in their lexicon, a RWNJ. (that's Right Wing Nut Job, for those of you not familiar with American political slang).

@minimilk Oh just shut your cuckservative bread trap and get off the internet, you're not needed here.

You bias shines through and I would almost guess you're a friend of NMR or some other rightwing asstard group.

@minimilk Iron Erna?

Iron?

Sorry mate, Erna is a leftist, weak and malleable leader. A clueless piece of chewing gum who's just trying to keep things cozy in Norway without actually making tough decisions or having a vision in general. Nowhere to be compared with the real Iron Lady. There's a reason why the Norwegian Krone is very weak right now and the economy is struggling.

@ImportViking
She is member of Conservatives, and was nicknames Iron Erna in honour if the Iron Lady Margaret Thatcher.

@minimilk Unfortunately, 'conservative' in Norway is still more leftist than Labour in the UK.

In addition, she's not that Iron, he coalition government of the Borgerlige partier collapsed yesterday, due to some very leftist decision.

To me, she can't be in the shadow of the real Iron Lady. I think the nickname Iron Erna is misplaced, but that's my opinion.

@minimilk She's not. After she entered office, Norway has become less and less democratic. Like how she is merging loads of counties against the will of the population, and in some ways that make no sense, the whole mess with missing ambulance planes in North-Norway, the failed police reform, the NAV (labour and welfare administration) scandal, how the rich are becoming richer and the poor are becoming poorer, etc. This is more a critique of her political party, but she is their leader so it's her responsibility!

@Thobiex Exactly. Clueless. And now she lost the biggest coalition partner due to some leftist decision.
Clueless, by performing a fylkeskommune-reform without actually getting support for it and without actually having a vision of why it should be done that way.
No vision, otherwise the other points wouldn't have happened like they did or being resolved faster or in a better manner. And it would have had proper consequences for the responsible people.
In most other countries where a government is held liable for their decisions she would have had to take her political responsibility a long time ago. But Norway knows all too well that Jonas isn't an alternative at all.

@minimilk Being a leftist is perfectly respectable.

@westofEden Is it? Why?

@minimilk As opposed to the clueless people from the other side that they replaced :-D

@minimilk, i think you managed to show - with stunning clarity - who it is, that is really clueless.
Good luck with finding a job. Don't give up hope.

@minimilk While thank you for insulting 4 prime ministers along with all those who voted them into office purely based on your own political view. One must hope you never have anyone who disagree with you at your work place because then by your own standard you should be fired from your job.

For the love of god, the joke isn't "Women are more competent than men", the joke is "Only one of the nordic prime ministers is a man". The comic doesn't say anything about how the people are as leaders

@ZanarNaryon TBF, studies suggest that women are actually better leaders, while men *think* they are better leaders.

@bananaforscale

Not about to hold my singular life experience up as some statistically valid sample size, but I've known several examples of the exact opposite: Socially very aggressive and dominant women who have confused bullying behaviors, verbal and emotional abuse as "leadership".

Mind you, I've known men like that too, and both men and women who were actually good leaders that inspired, cooperated and LED others rather than just threatening them into obedience.

I suppose my biggest dispute with your statement is the generalization implying ALL women are better leaders, and ALL men only think they are. Definitely not the case.

As a Finn I find the current situation puzzling, back in 2003 we briefly had a two democratically elected women as both the head of goverment and as the head of state and it didn't seem notable. Maybe this was because the internet had not proliferated so the wider world didn't notice... And maybe because of the brief nature of the arrangement due to our Prime Minister having used classified information during, that she had not had clearance to request and she... got her hands on them.
But I do hope that at some point we will live in a world where what a person has between his or her legs not even considered when being elected into a political office, but the the persons thoughts and intentions are all that matter.

@thergonomic They have been talking more about their age.

Unfortunately our prime minister is a wimp, with no backbone and was only put in that position because she is a woman. There were plenty of other women's for the job.

@DreHemmer No way Katrín was just picked as party leader and eventually prime minister because she was a woman. Picking her as the leader was a great strategic choice at the time, as when she was in opposition she oozed charisma and her party arguably got a lot stronger for that. Personally I also found her more objective less likely to get stuck in arguments than Steingrímur (who had of course been way to long in parliament, at least now he plays a neutral role). She has become less popular as her party has had to compromise with these two right wing parties. You can argue she has compromised too much although I am not sure about that my self.

Since when is it important what bits are between your legs for being a competent leader? I'd almost extend that to species as there are monkeys more competent than some of the current crop of leaders. Male or female.

@DutchToSwede
But lots of people tend to assume competence is linked to the bits and actively refuse to believe otherwise

@Sisu True. But it is still not an excuse to flip the situation around and hire women simply because they are women. That is just as bad and just as counterproductive

@DutchToSwede
In times before (and still far too often) the situation is opposite, women don't get hired because of their gender.
Then people usually use the "skill over gender/ethnicy/whatever" as an excuse afterwards.

@Sisu So you said. And so said I. I still do not see an argument to apply the same principle the other way around. It adds nothing. It is counterproductive and will not lead to any increased respect for women in any working environment. Hire people for their skills and be very clear about that. Those companies that I have worked for tgat did just that never had the argument come up that someone was given advantage because of gender. Will it take a while to change the general situation? Yes. Will positive discrimination help change it? No, it will just make it harder for true acceptance as there is always the shadow of being hired to boost the percentages so the company looks inclusive.

@DutchToSwede
I agree, but most often people seem to want to hire men, usually white men (granted, white people are the majority in europe, but about 50% of humans are female). And "no positive discrimination" can easily be (and propably is) used as an excuse

@DutchToSwede Our male prime minister is quite incompentent though, just like all the other party leaders here.

@Deviant At least you're consistent and saying they're all shit. :P Most politicians today are pretty garbage though.

@solstickan I wonder if that is why the world is going to shit right now...

I guess Sweden is the girls gay best friend?

We've got a social democratic government, four million people, big tourism, forestry, and fishing industries, love skiing, and have a long range of snow-capped mountains with plains to the east and fjords to the west. We even have a town called Dannevirke. Make New Zealand an honorary Nordic country and PM Jacinda Ardern can complete your band!

@Grutness I am not opposed to this

@Grutness Hell, if Scotland wants to be a Nordic country I don't see why New Zealand can't join in on the action

@Grutness We may be at the bottom of the world, but if you remember to put us on a map, we're actually very close. Just tape it at both ends. It works.

@Grutness Well, geographically you're the country that is the farthest away. Drawing a line from the northern countries through the center of the Earth and out on the other side, you land just southeast of New Zealand.

@Grutness Your northern island already looks like a subtropical Iceland while your southern island looks like a subtropical Norway.

@ImportViking - you're not far wrong!

@Grutness I've been to New Zealand, I've been to Iceland and I've been to Norway. My verdict is final. :P

Awww! I'm sorry you missed out. I'm sure the harmonies would have been . . . terrible. They're politicians for heavan's sake! They weren't hired for their singing ability.

@FrankHarr At least they have a tenor
...but the singing would probably still be bad

@ABCEastPonymon #9832007

Totally.

For a country that's seen so much social progression, it's surprising Sweden hasn't had a female prime minister yet.

@LtD surprising? No. The one who got closest just made really dumb decisions and got herself ousted from her party. Protip: make sure your closet is clean before aiming for the seat of prime minister.