Scandinavia and the World
Scandinavia and the World
Let Italian men live

Let Italian men live

I learned about the Italian movement where men fight for their right to take care of themselves without being ridiculed many years ago, and it left quite an impression on me.

Italy Denmark Norway Sweden
21st September 2017
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7 years ago #9681820        

See, this is the kind of movement I could get behind because it can be summed up as "Don't hold us to the standards of Toxic Masculinity. I want to be able to live by myself and not be shamed for that." It's, at any rate better than some of the bullshit angry young men say here in America (I say as a young American man), which is often highly sexist, as they feel as if they are "owed" something from women, and because they haven't "received" what they are "owed", women should be punished. The only time when neither group will feel oppressed is when a society embraces fully equal rights. Until then, both sexes will be trapped by society. Women by men's socially constructed power, and men by their reliance on that same power to survive. A movement like what Brother Italy says here is helpful to both sexes, even if it's not readily apparent at first. Because masculine pride and privilege is harmful to both sexes.
Dammit, why do groups in Europe make more sense (or at least have better arguments) than our equivalents here in the US?

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7 years ago #9681723        

It's most unfortunate that so many men's rights activists do just campaign for the right to shit on women, when there's real rights to campaign for.
Not just Italian men cooking, but that's a worthy one, too.

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7 years ago #9682053        

"We get that there are many rights worthy of fighting for, but surprisingly many men just want to shit on women."

This attitude is part of the problem. While Norway does have the decency to ask what Italy is talking about, most of the time the conversation just ends there. "You have some good points, but most MRAs are bad people, so I'm going to ignore the good points."

The fact that we can't even outlaw circumcision is proof of how much people are willing to ignore legitimate points when they negatively affect men. While I'm not claiming it's anywhere near as bad as FGM, it is still performing an unnecessary cosmetic surgery on an non-consenting infants genitals, that can reduce sexual pleasure. That's pretty messed up. This should be trivial to get down to the point where everyone who doesn't have religious justification regards it as a practice that should be ended. But we can't. Slicing up penises is heavily normalized. And I think that is in part due to the attitude to always ignore MRAs, because some MRAs are misogynists.

And some MRAs are misogynistic. But some Feminists are misandrist. It's only natural that any group of people that is focused on the needs of one gender is going to include people who hate the other gender. But ignore the sexists, and focus on the reasonable ones. You are still allowed to disagree with reasonable MRAs and Feminists. But don't let the extremists prevent you from hearing them out in the first place. Or you'll keep living in a country where genital mutilation of infants is so normalized, that shockingly few people even recognize it's wrong to do at all.

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7 years ago #9681708        

Let's make this simple: No person, regardless of gender, should be made to feel subservient to, inferior to, wholly dependent on, or abused by another person.

'Don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. Because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.' - Buckaroo Banzai

7 years ago #9681720        

Had an roommate in college from Italy, think of someone trying to do an over-the-top Jersey Shore impression and he was more Italian than that. I had to teach him how to do laundry, vacuum, unclog a toilet (that was fun....), make his bed, go grocery shopping, and use a stove (not how to cook, how to physically use a stove).

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6 years ago #9721326        

I'm mostly just happy Sister Norway didn't dismiss the guy out of hand, and asked for more information.

In my own experience, sexism againt men centers around treating us as criminals-in-waiting, unwarranted constant suspicion, that we should somehow have to prove that we are not child-molesters on a case-by-case basis, because the default assumption is that we would rape anything we could catch if we thought we would get away with it (and no acknowledgement of how horrifically insulting that is to any decent person) or that we are just generally disposable and easily replaceable in most any context.
No one seems to care what happens to us once a woman has decreed we are unwanted. There are women's shelters all over every city, but no men's shelters and few generic ones, which will often turn away a father with a child, considering splitting them apart the better choice for the child's sake, and that breaking up the family would be preferable to helping them (and again, no one seems to care what happens to the dad, only the child).
As the comedian observed: "If you see a homeless man with a dog, you feel sorry for the dog."

Most sexism against women (in the current age, and in my part of the world at least) seems centered around women being treated as sexually desirable, at times they don't want to be evaluated on their desirability, by persons they don't want to be desired by, or expressed in ways they don't care for.

That's fine; I don't dispute that most of that is, at the least, rude behavior, or could be inappropriate for the time, place, and circumstances.

I just think being treated like you don't deserve to be alive is inherently much worse.

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7 years ago #9682217        

Meanwhile here in America we just want to go to college without getting kicked out for 3 years on rape accusations from women we've never met that never even get sent to the police let alone investigated.

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6 years ago #9732316        

Dads could use more baby changing tables in the bathrooms. My husbands tired of pretending to be transsexual just so he can change a leaky diaper.

7 years ago #9682507        

There are some real men's rights issues. In the US, men can only vote if they sign up for the draft, and if they don't sign up for the draft, they can go to jail. Women are not required to sign up for the draft, but they still get to vote. Fathers win custody of their children only about 5% of the time and they have to spend a lot of money on court cases to get visitation rights. Also, men commit suicide at about 4 times the rates of women, but when there are men's suicide conferences, people protest them and call the people involved misogynists, like at the Toronto conference a few years ago.

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5 years ago #9815288        

It would be so much easier to take men's rights activists seriously if they talked about actual issues , like Italy in this comic, rather than just trying to maintain privilege

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