Women Around the World

And in America, we spend an entire day that should be devoted to discussing women's issues and gender equality, defending the fact that we have a day dedicated to us at all. When can I move?

@CanadaismyHat It's as if every self-centered, can't-see-past-the-end-of-their-noses, pampered troll takes to the keyboard on this day and whines and whinges about "there is no inequality, you're just trying to blame men for blablablalbla..." *me zoning out*. I honestly didn't think there would be anyone taking offence to this ONE day a year where we focus on these topics but nooo I just had to go online and ruin the illusion. The worst part is the most vocal and vitriolic seem to be fairly young men who only see someone taking something from them rather than bringing balance to the system. I hope they're just the loudest, not the largest group. Otherwise, what will become of the young women?

@dracuella Yeah, it sucks. Some women have the same reaction to Movember.

@DarkMage7280 A day I can get behind completely! My tip of the hat to the gents is by adding little moustaches to all my profile images and pestering my bf until he caves and goes running with me ^_^

@dracuella "It's as if every self-centered, can't-see-past-the-end-of-their-noses, pampered troll takes to the keyboard on this day and whines and whinges about "there is no inequality, you're just trying to blame men for blablablalbla...""

This may be because quite a lot of men are sick and tired of being blamed for things they didn't do and/or have no control over by the *very vocal* tiny group of pampered screaming harpies calling themselves "feminists" for the past 2-3 decades or so. Almost from the damned womb nowadays.

Fortunately, most women ( and men for that matter) don't spend their time social-studying and SJW-ing about Injustice by the Patriarchy, and simply get Stuff Done.

@Grikath It doesn't help that some of the most vocal ones use already debunked myths to promote their cause. If you think there's a problem that needs to be addressed that's perfectly fine. Present the problem (with actual evidence for once) and let's deal with it. But no, they keep using the "77% of men for the same job" nonsense even though it was debunked ages ago. It just makes the whole thing sound childish.

I've still never seen anyone (in the west) show us a right that men have and women don't. There's a few that only women have though.. Especially when it comes to divorces and children. So if women actually have more rights than men.. Uhh.. That patriarchy really isn't doing a great job, is it?

@CanadaismyHat I became a citizen of the U.S. why? Lol!

@CanadaismyHat Aside from casual conversation, today felt like any other day in America.

@CanadaismyHat What state do you live in? In mine, the feminist movement is demanding abolishment of National Men's Day claiming it's sexist.

@Shotwells Ohio. Its awful. Where are you at?

"The Rise of Women does not Mean the Fall of Men" let's joyfully celebrate women but don't take away our Mother's Day & Valentine's Day ... or any other day !!!

@tss88 you wouldn't think so when listening to socalled feminists these days. The sjw kind that is.

@tss88 Well Valentines day is for booth gender, and men have a Father's day and Men's day so...

Meanwhile,in USA,Canada and Sweden,women(third wave feminists) spent the day talking about men and their aggressive sitting in the train(misandry),oppression,wage gap,rape and again rape.
And,in Arabic peninsula,women celebrate it as the day with no leashes,stoning or other physical harms.
:P

@Cordisiolol Oh, excuuuuuuse me, Cordisiolol. Thank you so very much for not stoning and leashing me. I am ever so sorry that I complained about being raped. I should just be thankful that I am not reduced to animal status instead of clamoring to be respected as an equal human being.

@tuil
So,your origins are from the Arabian peninsula? Well,sorry to say that,but your people use islam as a political thing,and women aren't allowed to do anything,more or less. They can't drive,I mean,they are not allowed. They are not allowed to work,or do any activity that an average individual does. Instead,they wear the hijab,and get punished for something quite low. Or not! Like wearing a burqa but it is 1 cm short for the husband's view. And,so the husband gets his leash,and whips her,for being "infidel". They can be raped,humiliated and more,as well. The only thing that is equal in that peninsula is the capital punishment. Apart from the charges. But,Islam allows it! (A reference from a friend of mine,ex muslim,from Kosovo,as she read a part of Quran.)
You live in USA! In the land of "opportunity". I don't know what opportunity is for us,but for you is quite a lot. You are human beings,which is more important. You can be strong by having a good job career,creating a family whom you respect and help,and vice-versa. Thanks to the feminists of the 1st and 2nd wave,you can do that,with no hesitation. As for the feminist 3rd wave,I assure you,they have no sign of intelligence on what are they doing. By turning you backwards,focusing on small problems than serious one(aggressive sitting in the train over the Islamic oppression on women in Arabian peninsula.),and more insane made-up issues.

@Cordisiolol I don't know what "your friend" have told you, but I guarantee you, it's not the truth.

@tuil

First wave: Getting the right to vote.

Second wave: Equality at home and work.

Third wave: Combatting evil white heterosexual patriarchy that conspires to oppress anyone other than white heterosexual males. This oppression is present everywhere, from computer games to how women decide to live their lives. The combat against this "patriarchy" is a series of attacks against anyone who criticizes this notion by any possible means, whether it be by harassing his/her employer until the offender is fired from his/her job, physically attacking the person him-/herself, or – in an ideal situation – totally destroying the life of the person and causing him/her to commit a suicide. This movement consists mostly of women with borderline personality disorder, which is why most fervent attacks are against people of their own movement, who disagree with some minor detail.

@Cordisiolol "third wave feminists" are actually extremists. And if you know anything about extremists, the extremer they are, the farther away from the original point of the idea they are.

@leoleosuper
That was my point.

@Cordisiolol Oh gosh! gee! being "rape and again rape" is much different than "physical harms"!

Oh wait. Its not.

And wages are important because money means the ability to hire lawyers or get schooling to become a lawyer. The ability to change the system to prevent yourself from being raped and stoned (or to change it to allow yourself to rape and stone people) is often dependent on how much you're being paid. Paying any minority less means that minority has less ability to help itself- or to help even more deeply oppressed groups in other countries.

And let's face it- Women in the Arabic Peninsula are probably not going to be helped by people who think that rape isn't physical harm. Like- even slightly.

@Cordisiolol So I I counted and that adds up to 4 quite important problems and one unimportant one. Where is the problem exactly?

Wouldn't it be easier to appreciate everyone the same without a specific day? Why focus on one group, and get rid of holidays for specific groups?
Regardless of our gender, our race, our ethnicity, our religion, everyone here shares 3 things in common:
1. You were born.
2. You will die.
3. You're spending part of your finite life looking at little cartoons on the Internet.

And things in the US have taken the idea of diversity to a level that to an American, is somewhat frustrating:
At a college in my state, the black male student community demanded a whole new set of dorm buildings to be made because the people in the dorms were racist to them. They wanted a black-only dorm complex.
A rather odd and specific request, but if needed, I'm fine.
What really ticked me off is that the black female students, after the school agreed, asked for a separate black female dorm because it was sexist to give one only to black men.
But isn't purposely separating one race from another segregation? Onto themselves?
A representative of a black neighborhood in a US town showed a plan for improving schools, providing housing, and other things for the town.
These innovations were only in black neighborhoods, under the idea of "slavery reparations".
Knowing how, um, "liberal" Europeans are, I'm going to buckle down and wait for the angry mobs to form.

@ConnecticutMan You have to understand, the reason for these specific days or months that recognize particular minority/oppressed groups is because, historically, they were ignored and lacked rights and/or recognition. These type of events are meant to educate, not belittle, the white, male hegemony. As a contemporary example, the whole "Black Lives Matter" campaign was never intended to attack whites, or the police in general, but to advocate against police brutality. It is not a means to put Black lives above all others.

As far as the segregation that you describe, these appear to be focused on dorms, not classroom attendance. I'm not familiar with the campus you describe, but perhaps in that context, it might make sense--and the students feel that there's enough racism prevalent--to warrant such a safety measure.

Racism, especially in the USA, is a sensitive issue. Rather than get defensive about it, it is often better to just listen to the other side and hear their grievances. Also, if you are white and male, understand that you are in a position of privilege compared to most. It also helps not to take racial anger personally--often, they just want to be heard. Build a bridge instead of a wall.

@ConnecticutMan I think it's important to have these days to remind us both of pat and present challenges.
However that's because I fight for equality, the whole "just blacks dorms" for example or "women only meetings" and even proposed "gays only schools" sounds like segregation to me and I oppose that!

@NordKalaaleqSorcerer Really? You're bothered by meetings attended only by women? What? And when someone propose gay (I'm assuming you mean queer here, not just schools for gay males) schools that's often because the schools currently available are extremely anti-queer and effectively forcing minority students to attend schools that hate them is incredibly damaging. They've done studies on perfectly healthy college age students being put in a hostile environment for a month - and it was found that it was VERY mentally damaging to them. Can you imagine queer youths having to deal with that for four years? There's a reason the suicide rate is so high for them, especially trans youth.

Keep in mind that when people want places specifically for them, it's because they want *safe* places. If they were treated as fairly as non-minority groups were, they wouldn't feel the need to ask for them.

@SwingShift_CA
If they want segregation, then segregation shall it be. It would also mean that the segregation / congregation would have to invest into their own school buildings because nobody else wouldn't.

@SwingShift_CA Know the solution to this?

It's called education!

Force the little shithead homophobes, racist and mysoginists to learn how to behave and enforce a strict code, kick out such bad students even if means kicking them all out instead of isolating the queers and such!

@SwingShift_CA I'm gay <.< I don't want to be segregated!

@ConnecticutMan Wow. Wasn't there a big debate about "seperate but equal" a long time ago? I know at the university I go to (hint, its in the south), if we tried that itd be called racist so fast it'd make my head spin, no matter if the intention was at a student's request.

everybody wants to be special...

@ConnecticutMan That would obviously be ideal but some people just seem to love being the perpetual victims.

True equality is pretty simple really. Everyone has the same rights all the time. EVERYONE. Even when preferential treatment is done with the very best of intentions it's the exact opposite of equality. If black people can ask for a black-only dorm, white people can ask for a white-only dorm. Otherwise there's no equality. If women can ask for something so can men. Otherwise there's no equality. If LGBT people can ask for something so can straight people etc. If a company isn't allowed to only hire white people, men, straight people or whatever it shouldn't be allowed to only hire people of color, women or gay people either. Discrimination isn't a one way street. As an example, if gays ban straight people from their bar it's discrimination based on sexual orientation. The very thing they've been fighting for generations.

The thing that a lot of people these days claims as equality is about as far from it as you can get. They're fighting perceived discrimination with actual discrimination. What a fucking success. Much wow! Very progress! Such amaze!

@ConnecticutMan Angry American Mob here- um. Are you serious? They're experience levels of harassment high enough to ask to be housed away from the white students- segregation having been the flash point of the civil rights movement, historically- and you're gripping about THEIR Racism?

Do you hear yourself when you talk?

@ConnecticutMan There was a school in either Alabama or Mississippi who held its first desegregated dance fewer than 5-10 years ago. Elliott Rogers was a member of several active misogynist groups who saw women as objects. Yes, his first victims were men, but they were "obstacles in his way to punish the women."

He was part of several social groups, such as MRAs and PUAs, who supported his actions. For a while, you could find links to these groups in his social media profiles.

Many of these progressive changes just happened not that many generations back. People change slowly. Many of those old racists are still in power. Same with misogynists. Your CA The false rape reporting is only 2-3%, but watch someone get slammed for it. It'd be nice not to have to worry about these things, but you have to keep your eyes open.

"Women's Struggle/Battle Day" reminds me of how much I love the Danish version of "Frozen". Here's a verse from the U.S. version:

Don't let them in, don't let them see
Be the good girl you always have to be
Conceal, don't feel, put on a show
Make one wrong move and everyone will know

And the same verse from the Danish version:

Let no one in, let no see
Fight alone, it's your duty
Lock in, every day, and lie cold
One wrong move and I lose all control

Danish Elsa is metal af.

I meet a girl who was Danish once, and i called her Dutch as a joke, she immediately left and a hour later when i went to my car and she painted Danish flags all over it (With easily removable paint). That was my only real life encounter with a Lady Dane, quite unforgettable.

@TexMex i think i secretly love that woman.

@missdisco Yea she's a fighter lol

@TexMex That's the kind of girl you want to carry your children!

@NorwaySwedenDenmark Yea lol we would do alright lol

@TexMex Never mess with Sister Denmark in berserker mode!

For feminists who still complain of unequal rights in the West:

Do they exist? Yes. Are they for the most part perpetuated by governments? No. At this point, someone who stands up for women's rights should be taking on religion (particularly Islam). Western countries may not get it 100% right, but at least here, women are allowed to life their lives (go to school, have a job, think for themselves, etc).

For women's day, it might be wise to consider places like Afghanistan and think about how to bring the fight for women where it is most needed.

@txag70 exactly what malala yousafzai was talking about

@txag70 Or we could show countries like Afghanistan that female humans are important by continuing to push for actual equality in our own country instead of settling for sort of equal, while simultaneously doing every thing we can to help women in said countries.

Instead of telling women to shut up.

@twig I'm not telling women to shut up (is that really the vibe I was giving off? If so, sorry)... it's just... well, i feel like maybe we're not gonna get a whole lot farther with equality until we deal with the religions that have kept women as subservient for thousands of years and are integral with pretty much every world culture. I said in my original comment that the west doesn't have everything 100% right.

That's not to say we need to end it or attack religion, but I feel like religion in particular, especially Islam, is the biggest roadblock to billions of women who deserve equality.

Also, what in particular would you want to do to help women in the USA (or whatever presumably western nation you hail from)? I support pay equality, but it is virtually impossible to legislate effective (there would be so many legal dodges corporations could use, so any legislation that gets passed would just be a feel-good bill). Abortion rights? That would require either a supreme court change or a states-wide movement (which progressives and feminists are God-awful at). Having women be allowed for selective service? Price gaps?

What do you define as actual equality, and how do we get there?

@txag70 Elliott Rogers was a member of several active misogynist groups who saw women as objects. Yes, his first victims were men, but they were "obstacles in his way to punish the women."

He was part of several social groups, such as MRAs and PUAs, who supported his actions. For a while, you could find links to these groups in his social media profiles.

Many of these progressive changes just happened not that many generations back. People change slowly. The false rape reporting is only 2-3%, but watch someone get slammed for it, every time--like the family who was run out of town after their daughter was assaulted by the local football team. The act was caught on camera, so there was no doubt--but she was accused of "ruining those good boys' future" and people threw stones through her family's window.

It'd be nice not to have to worry about these things, but you have to keep your eyes open. Better for the rest of the world to be the best example we can be.

Here, we have a battle between women and feminists. Women simply enjoy the day, feminists belittle women for not battling for their rights.

@Vexillo I have noticed that for the last fifteen years or so, most of the belittling has gone the other way--like this thing you're doing right now. There has been some hard PR work done to make "feminist" as dirty a word as possible.

@PurpleLibraryGuy Like with any group, there are good and bad people, and the bad ones shout the hardest and make the reputation. In this case that would be the belittling "feminists". They exist, they draw the attention, but they're not necessarily the majority among feminists.

@Zeust well over here there has been a trend of feminists leaving their title of feminist and just moving over to womens rights activist instead as too many feminists have gone overboard in their crusade for martyrdom regardless if the change is something they wanted.

@PurpleLibraryGuy What if the "PR work" comes from the feminists themselves? I was simply referecing the events that happened here, where a feminist group called women weak for receiving flowers instead of fighting for their rights. I didn't put my opinion, just stating facts.

@PurpleLibraryGuy No belittling has been necessary. It's all done by the third wave feminist themselves. When you start going full retard with your demands and crazy claims of course people's view of your movement is going to change. Making up shit like mansplaining, manspreading, using outright lies (77% of men for the same job, comes to mind) etc. is bound to give a lot of people a bad impression of you and your movement.

Also, feminism has never been a movement for both genders. Ever. Hence the name. The thing is it started at a time where women were clearly seen as lesser than men so them focusing completely on women and women's rights at that time was both understandable and fair. Those days are long gone though. In fact women have more rights than men in several countries. Focusing completely on women's rights today would be like starting a MRA in Iraq or something. A place where men already control everything.
Feminism was ever only indirectly for equality. When women were "below" men obviously raising them would result in more equality but the goal was empowering women first and foremost. Equality would just be a result of their work. That obviously only worked while they had fewer rights though. As soon as two groups have the same rights focusing completely on one side is not going to get you equality but inequality.

There's a word for a person fighting for total equality and it isn't feminist. It's egalitarian. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/egalitarianism

@Vexillo Not true! I'm a feminist, but that doesn't mean I'm belittling (is that a word?) anybody. A feminist is , and this is Camebrigde Dictionary's definition, "A ​person who ​believes in ​feminism, and ​tries to ​achieve ​change that ​helps women to get ​equal ​opportunities and ​treatment." And feminism is, again by Camebridge Dictionary, "The ​belief that women should be ​allowed the same ​rights, ​power, and ​opportunities as men and be ​treated in the same way, or the set of ​activities ​intended to ​achieve this ​state."
Which means that a feminist is someone who want everyone, no matter of gender, have the same rights to do whatever they want (that isn't respectless, against the law or wrong in any other way), such as shaving or not shaving (any bodypart), dress in trousers or skirts, and being treated with respect and be allowed to be whoever they may be. Men should also not be preferred in jobs, and chosen over women with higher competense simply because they're men, and no one should belittle someone because they're a woman.

I may think it's a little contra-productive not to stand up for yourself and not using and fighting for your rights, but I would never try to make someone feel ashamed for that. It's still their choice - as long as, for example, someone is forcing them to it or not using their rights means they're getting abused or something.

Being a feminist is something good, that EVERYONE with any shame in their body should be, because all it means is that you think that men and women are equal and should have the same rights and possibilites. Nothing else. No man-hate, no "women are supreme", nothing that don't have with equal rights to do at all.

@Swedishbooks Vexillo's referring to the "third-wavers." A small, but loud and irritating minority that somehow don't realize (or just refuse to accept) that they tend to do more harm than good to the cause they claim

@Swedishbooks There is a flaw in your logic. You can't simply say "these aren't feminists" because you differ ideologically. It is like taking two shades of blue but calling one "not blue" because it doesn't please your eyes.

I didn't make up a story, I told what actually happened, factual events. Honestly, I don't really mind feminism , each to its own fights, I am still fighting for humanization of my people. But to deny there are feminists out there fighting for woman supremacy, female preference over males, or simply misantropy disguised as misandry is either ingenuity or a myopic view of the world.

@Vexillo Meanwhile you've got a point I'd like to say first: I never actually said that they weren't feminists, even though it maybe sounded like that. And secondly: like I said, the dictionary definition is 'someone who wants equal rights and possiblilites between the genders", so if you want to make men less, make men take the place in the hierarchy women traditionally have been in you don't want what the dictionary says a feminist wants. So they may be extreme-feminists, womenists and such, but by all dictionary means (I've said dictionary a lot, haven't I?) they aren't actual feminists.

But I apologize if I said something that sounded wrong. Just, your formulation made it sound like you meant all feminists was like that. But I suppose I misunderstood, then. And I know that there's women who want that (totally ridiculous, if you ask me) but just be careful that you don't push that on all feminists, because that's really not what most want.

@VexilloI know this might sound rather stupid, but, I must admit I have NO idea what a feminist is. At first, I thought it was a boy who disrespected women and shit, then I thought it was a guy who acted feminine or was transgender (a boy to a girl, or a girl to a boy) then I got lost in what feminists seemed to be. And I'm apparently too lazy to look it up. :P I'm also afraid I can't tell the difference between third gender, and transgender :C

In Iceland we have both women's day and men's day....yay for equality!!!!

@Demonpet how can I move and start living there?

@emptyribcage Whenever but....warning....our health system is kinda fucked up, we have feaky long winters and because during our winters the sun doesn't really come out everyone gets kinda depressed BUT during the summer the sun almost never sets so that's a plus!

@Demonpet oh damn, why is the health system fucked up? And oh it's fine, I actually love winters!

@emptyribcage long story short the hospitals need more money but the government refuses to give it to them

@Demonpet ...corruption? or just horrible prioritisation? or no idea?

@emptyribcage Or all of the above

Who fucking cares? Seriously? It's also known as Tuesday. Raising awareness of every single problem in the world only results in everyone being desensitised and indifferent to everything.

@MMM
Agreed.

@MMM Who cares? Women who wanna get paid fairly, who wanna escape forced marriage, who wanna get rapists jailed and not being blamed for that. Anyone who has a daughter cares about her getting a fair shot.
I care.

Maybe your life is perfect and your neighbours or colleagues are perfect. Mine are not. Even in Norway I don't get heard when I am the only one detecting an IT problem. Yeap, because I'm not a man. How can I be sure? Try hearing "Is there a man here? My PC doesn't work" half a dozen times.

@Elina Probably throwing myself into a little fire here but a few of those are problems for men as well. In forced marriages, it is both sides that do not get a choice. I believe malala's farther references that too? Don't quote me on that one, though. As for rapists, both genders can get raped and although men are a bit less likely to, they are also far less likely to have the rapist jailed. Which is why I find genders in general a bother and the best emancipation is by getting things equalized, not just the positives.

(Though I do agree, equal/fair pay is still an issue in some countries and that should change, and the example you gave of your personal life is something that people should not really say, unless in the most obvious of puns and then still at the risk of not being funny to plenty of people),

Pardon my fuzzing in there. It just feels a bit forgotten most of the time that there are two sides of the coin ^^"

@Tay-Tech
About forced marriages, it depends on the country. And who have most rights in this kind of marriages?

BTW, do you really think someone is forgetting men by celebrating women's rights day og writing about women's burden? Really?

@Elina I think that if women's rights want to continue to make advances, we need to take a long hard look at religion, particularly Islam. Religion has been a social apparatus to keep women subservient for millenia, and while it is still important to build community and love one another, this is a serious issue. Marriage is a religious convention and has been long before it was a secular one, and forced marriages come very often from religion.

I am not particularly sure further legislation practically advances women's rights all that much. Legislating pay for genders is both a slippery slope and very difficult to enforce. And yes, stereotypes about women not being suited to science and engineering are prevalent (though, in fairness, i go to a school of 60,000, and our department is about 12% female. The computer science program is somewhere around 5% female, so this stereotype might still have a basis in reality). I'm happy to have a women's day anyhow... though i was unaware it existed.

@txag70
I'm not for more legislation. In European countries, most of the legislation we have is sufficient.

But a department that is 12% female... it's not fairness (pun intended). It's totally biased. And women chose not to apply. Many studies show teachers do not react the same way to girls and boys in science classes. Girls also lack roll models in these fields. And male students, even in college, tend to think a A female student is worth a B. So for girls, science and engineering is not an easy path.
That's why there are programs to promote roll models in computer science (Margaret Halmilton & co).

Conversely, in Norway we now lack male students in medicine, vet studies, pharmacy, psychology, nurse studies and last but not least kindergarten studies. We have all-female staff in many kintergartens, which is not good for little boys.

@Elina It really ain't a bias issue. Or at least, the bias problem goes to Texas high schools, because this university is growing at 6% a year and gender is irrelevant if you are within the top 10% academically coming from any Texas high school, because you automatically get in. And to be honest, most Texas high schools are objectively terrible (we were ranked 44 out of 50 last year), it doesn't take a genius to do that (It was harder for me, I graduated high school from a different state, but I worked hard).

Engineering has a 60% dropout rate after the first year. The classes are so large that your gender means nothing, since the professor ain't gonna notice you anyway. If anything, women get an easier option into engineering, because the university is desperate to improve the numbers.

Hey, at least we're not the computer science department. That's 5% female!

We have a similar problem here in the converse though... I know the education department is at least 70% female.

And ma'am, if you would like to fix Texas primary and secondary schools, good luck. The last person in government to give a damn about them here was Ann Richards (now THAT is a woman for both feminists and non-feminists to look up to, God bless her). And what happened next? After one term, Texans elected this shit-kicker instead. Fuck us.

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.Md8543b921afd11d3c99def34cf5094c3o0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=260&h=163

Btw, I imagine Norway is going through a few economic hiccups just like Texas since oil prices crashed. At least I get to laugh at the entitled Petroleum Engineers who lorded their job prospects over the rest of our heads a few years ago... there's a silver lining to everything.

@Elina True enough I suppose, about it depending on the country, though I find it a bit similar like saying.. Because you're part of a gender or race you can't complain because you 'don't have it the worst' and are the bad guy for complaining or even mentioning it. As for who has the most rights? In terms of money, the women usually go about it, decide on what money is spent on, how to go about it, in most cultures' households. Roles are still divided. To a degree it's nature, to a larger degree it is culture.

And no, I do not think people are forgetting men, just equality itself or problems that both sides can have. It is always far too easy to get blindsighted

@MMM All my internets to this fine anon.

@MMM my eye just vibrated wtf